[News] New Arena - Plan B - Victoria Park

[Erick Estrada]

Seattle is still looking at a new arena. If they get one built in the next few years the city I could see that as the market the Flames owners would want to move to seeing it's still in the west and close proximity to Vancouver. If Seattle gets this done look out as I don't think the threats would be empty at all.

http://komonews.com/news/local/commi...-seattle-arena

[chedder]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

I am disappointed a smart guy like KK got baited into saying something so stupid on the eve of the Flames punching their post season ticket.

Just shut up about this stuff until the off season.

I've never thought King as a smart guy. Figured he must have compromising photos of Edwards or something.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by colbym72

I understand there is a lot of politics involved but I don't know how people can be so willingly okay with the thought of them moving. It would be crushing to me to see this team somewhere else. It won't happen but man..

This. It's easy for people to trot out the "then move" comment, but it would really crush a lot of people, me included. It would suck to go through what Winnipeg and Quebec went through, and pine after a team for years while other Canadian cities have theirs.

[Northendzone]

So one thing I can't help but wonder - bettman has seemingly fought for a decade to keep the Yates in Phoenix, given that, then how long would he fight to keep the flames here in Calgary?

That being said, it would be nice if the flames could enter into a dialogue with the city and province to get a firm picture of what each party is willing to bring to the table and what each party needs.

[iamca]

Your Okotoks, Balzac, or Airdrie Flames

They could donate a parcel of land and put themselves on the map

Airdrie already has a cool logo

[automaton 3]

From my experiences (in the upper deck mind you) in other newer arenas, I don't really get what the fuss is for the average fan. The newer buildings look nice on the outside and the concourses are much nicer, but the game experience imo, is pretty much the same.

Not worth the tax increases and tickets surcharges all so millionaires and billionaires can make more $, in my view.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The Owners of the Flames have built massive businesses in this city and employed thousands and donated millions to various causes and Nenshi basically once again opened his big mouth and really bought this whole thing into the public forum in a negative way.

The Flames have generated millions of dollars to this city in terms of taxes and other things.

That's great, they are successful business men...but that's still not a valid excuse for giving them hundreds of millions of public dollars. It should be the exact reason not to.

You wouldn't be ok if Suncor or Agrium or Stantec came asking for that type of money (and I'm sure they provide more economic benefit to this town than the Flames), so why is it ok with a hockey team?

The Flames and the NHL need to find a solution in house. Cut that $70M salary cap to $40-50M, and they can build themselves a new arena every 2 decades.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

So one thing I can't help but wonder - bet an has seemingly fought for a decade to keep the Yates in Phoenix, given that, then how long would he fight to keep the flames here in Calgary?

That being said, it would be nice if the flames could enter into a dialogue with the city and province to get a firm picture of what each party is willing to bring to the table and what each party needs.

Apples to oranges. The NHL wants to keep the Coyotes in that US TV market. The Flames could leave Calgary and it would not at all change the Canadian TV market and if anything they could sit on Calgary as the next place they could use as a threat of relocation for franchises. Gary has always been tight with Flames ownership and there's no way he would stand in their way and Seattle is a market the NHL has always been interested in and what better owners than stable ones the Flames to assume that market.

[chummer]

I cringe every time Ken King speaks.

I'm ok with the move as long as the Flames take Ken King with them.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

So one thing I can't help but wonder - bettman has seemingly fought for a decade to keep the Yates in Phoenix, given that, then how long would he fight to keep the flames here in Calgary?

That being said, it would be nice if the flames could enter into a dialogue with the city and province to get a firm picture of what each party is willing to bring to the table and what each party needs.

In fairness, the amount of public cash that the Coyotes have sucked out of there probably has a fair amount to do with that.

Kind of the thing we're trying to avoid in this particular situation.

And again, I dont think anyone, including Nenshi, has a problem with public money going into an arena, its just a question of 'how much' and 'for what public benefit.'

Originally Posted by iamca

Your Okotoks, Balzac, or Airdrie Flames

They could donate a parcel of land and put themselves on the map

Airdrie already has a cool logo

Plus its only like 10 minutes from Downtown!

[rumy]

Originally Posted by edn88

But the Flames are not the only tenant of the building. Part of the argument for a new building is additional events and concerts. Flames don't need to foot the whole bill.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the economic benefit to the city of a new building is quite large. Even from having the Flames around. Restaurants and bars do well, pay more taxes. Hotels are busier etc etc.

The 9 Garth Brooks concerts pumped $42 million into the edmonton economy as reported by Metro. This is the kind of money available to the city as a whole with a new arena.


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[Ozy_Flame]

Didn't Nenshi say that KK and team have to provide how their concept can provide to the public good? That's not an unreasonable request.

Sounds like the onus is on KK and the Flames to specifically lay out the public benefit for their proposal. Not sure why the city has arrange things to work.

The key will be having the Flames identify the City's priorities, and explain how their proposal meets some threshold of those, including partnering on public projects that were in the pipeline already without the Flames involvement. City Hall needs to see how the Flames can help them reach their existing objectives.

City Hall should never, ever, bend their priorities for private interests. EVER. But that doesn't mean the two can't be partners to mutually gain from a partnership project.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Seattle is still looking at a new arena. If they get one built in the next few years the city I could see that as the market the Flames owners would want to move to seeing it's still in the west and close proximity to Vancouver. If Seattle gets this done look out as I don't think the threats would be empty at all.

http://komonews.com/news/local/commi...-seattle-arena

It is a legit threat even though Seattle really just wants an NBA team back, they really have no appetite for an NHL team. The NHL wants in though.

It really would be dumb of the Flames to leave a town where they are King to being the 5th or 6th option in Seattle. The Seahawks are king there and despite having a decent time in recent years, the Mariners can't even draw good crowds. The Sounders have a loyal following. Then there are all the college teams. I really don't see an NHL team drawing much fan interest there, but to the NHL, they don't really care about ticket sales, they care about the tv package they can sell.

Too bad Katz didn't move the Oilers there, it would have been perfect and if they got McDavid too while in Seattle, that might actually have worked.

Also, Seattle's arena deal is almost as big a sideshow as Calgary's; however, they don't actually have any team yet.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

I am disappointed a smart guy like KK got baited into saying something so stupid on the eve of the Flames punching their post season ticket.

Just shut up about this stuff until the off season.

He didn't let himself get baited; this was just part of his terrible pr campaign to get a new arena. I wonder if Ken King has assumed the Gary Bettman role as a foil; someone to act as a lightning rod to take heat for the project so the owners don't have to.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Locke

In fairness, the amount of public cash that the Coyotes have sucked out of there probably has a fair amount to do with that.

Kind of the thing we're trying to avoid in this particular situation.

And again, I dont think anyone, including Nenshi, has a problem with public money going into an arena, its just a question of 'how much' and 'for what public benefit.'



Plus its only like 10 minutes from Downtown!

I think this is personal to Nenshi in that he wants to be known as the Mayor that didn't cave in to an NHL team. I also think he's smart enough that he would never want his legacy tainted to be remembered as the mayor that lost the Calgary's NHL team. I simply think this is the way he operates and lets not forget he's only one vote. I still feel it's going to happen and this back and forth stuff is simply part of the process.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I see some around here don't want to deal in reality.

That should likely end any discussion.

You had a mirror up while typing this, right?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Reaper

He didn't let himself get baited; this was just part of his terrible pr campaign to get a new arena. I wonder if Ken King has assumed the Gary Bettman role as a foil; someone to act as a lightning rod to take heat for the project so the owners don't have to.

Well.....yeah.

It's his job afterall.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by 868904

It is a legit threat even though Seattle really just wants an NBA team back, they really have no appetite for an NHL team. The NHL wants in though.

It really would be dumb of the Flames to leave a town where they are King to being the 5th or 6th option in Seattle. The Seahawks are king there and despite having a decent time in recent years, the Mariners can't even draw good crowds. The Sounders have a loyal following. Then there are all the college teams. I really don't see an NHL team drawing much fan interest there, but to the NHL, they don't really care about ticket sales, they care about the tv package they can sell.

Too bad Katz didn't move the Oilers there, it would have been perfect and if they got McDavid too while in Seattle, that might actually have worked.

Also, Seattle's arena deal is almost as big a sideshow as Calgary's; however, they don't actually have any team yet.

Seattle has a long running WHL team that averages close to 5k attendance which is not bad for junior hockey in a US city. The Seahawks are the big draw but when they hit the skids that will change and like most US cities the team that is winning is the most popular team. I think a Seattle team would do fine given close proximity to Vancouver and the California teams and the rivalry possibilities. If successful it may also open the door for Portland. It's the best untapped US market so there's no way the NHL stands in the way of a team relocating there. The city took to the Sounders so I don't see why they wouldn't take to a good NHL team.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

You had a mirror up while typing this, right?

Are you passively aggressively suggesting something here?

Or is this just more MMF blather?

[stone hands]

Love the flames but the many billionaires that own the Calgary flames can buy their own plot of land and build their own private building where people voluntarily attend a sports event

If they don't wanna do that, cya later