Israel declares war on Hamas

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Sounds like the ground assault has begun.

IDF goes into Jenin.

Jenin is in West Bank, not Gaza. I see nothing in Israel media at the moment.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

What motivated me to ask such a question is that I would be curious if, taking two similar positions, one shared by a Jewish person and one not, you would treat them differently. If you would accuse one of hating Israel, and not the other. I got my answer, but I’m hoping it’s a good reminder that you should not automatically assume people who share those sentiments hate Israel or Jewish people.

The point you missed is that several posters repeat the same misinformation after being informed they are incorrect. They have no interest in learning, just repeating talking points probably written by Iran. Those points have one purpose, vilification of Israel.

Do you feel all Italians share the same opinion? How am I supposed to know anything about BS?

I have no idea who wrote that statement for BS but it is clearly wrong and hurtful.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Beninho

This isn’t a religious war for most Jews and Israelis.

It's not about religion but then follows up with...

Originally Posted by Beninho

Jerusalem is the holiest city in Judaism and is integral to Jewish culture and religion. Unlike Islam, in Judaism we pray towards Jerusalem and not to Mecca. It’s only a holy site because us, the Jews, made it a holy site. AND even with that being said we still respect Islam and allowed Palestinians to control Al-Aqsa even though it sits directly on the most holiest religious site for Jews. Would the Palestinians and arabs be so kind?

Originally Posted by Beninho

It is probably hard for someone who is not part of an ethno-religious group to understand but our religion is directly tied to our ethnic identity hence why even after 2000 years the land of Israel remained the heart beat of our culture. The early Zionists were not religious in the slightest. Our ethnic identity is rooted to the levant, you can see it in DNA tests.

So it is about religion because religion is core to the identity of being Jewish. Otherwise you'd just identify where you were born and raised rather than whining about some connection to land you have never been to. So take religion out of this discussion and you're a Canadian kid whose roots are in Germany or Poland.

Originally Posted by Pointman

I don't get this argument. Do you claim, that Palestinian Arabs are original peoples of Palestine? If so, this is historically wrong. It was, to simplify it, like this:

1. Jews were the first people in the land, along with some other nations, but Arabs were not among them. And Jerusalem was the capital of Jewish kingdom.

Wait a second. There were people in this land loooooong before Judiasm was established. The Canaanites and the Babylonians are just easy examples to reference. So to say the Jews were the first people in the land is just wrong. Kind of like saying Columbus discovered America. Nice fallacy and good children's story, but not even remotely accurate. I think this part of the larger problem. The historical Harry Potter fan fiction is being taken as historically accurate rather than understanding many of the stories are just that, stories with plenty of embellishments. People that take their "holy texts" as historically accurate accounts need to take a really deep breath and apply some critical thought to the books.

Originally Posted by Beninho

Most of the land the Jews got was a wasteland with much of it legally purchased from the Ottomans.

So getting back to who originally owned the land and can prove provenance in modern terms, it was actually the Ottomans? So they were the ones who really got screwed over? Maybe it should be the Turks laying claim to the lands and make this really interesting.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Jenin is in West Bank, not Gaza. I see nothing in Israel media at the moment.

Just what i was seeing on twitter....

https://twitter.com/user/status/1712312127803871587

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Wtf man? These are legitimate human rights issues.

You can't build a prosperous democratic country when you're deprived of a country.

You can’t build a prosperous country when you are paying your population to murder its neighbours. Insurance, banking, investment, education, all held back just from the pay to slay system. You must be aware that the PA pays people to murder jews?

They just need to say enough is enough and come to the table and guarantee Israel’s peace.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Pointman

You were not deprived of a country. You could build a democracy in Gaza and on the first elections you had you elected Hamas. Those proved to be the last elections you had. You do see the whole scheme of how Hamas leaders are manipulating you so they can steal more aid, don't you?

You do understand that Gaza is not an independent country right? Hamas was elected because they used to build schools and hospitals. They were seen as the opposite of the PA, who were and still are highly corrupt and ineffective. Here's an article in the LA times from 2006 discussing that.
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-...ty2-story.html

They were elected in not solely because arabs like death or whatever you believe.

None of the zionist crew around here has even discussed any kind of solution other than "obliterate the Palestinians. They voted for hamas, so they must all die."

Seriously, do you guys think that genocide is the answer?

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by blankall

The only people who can claim a continuous presence in the land are the Samaritans.

But just the good ones.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by _Q_

You do understand that Gaza is not an independent country right? Hamas was elected because they used to build schools and hospitals. They were seen as the opposite of the PA, who were and still are highly corrupt and ineffective. Here's an article in the LA times from 2006 discussing that.
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-...ty2-story.html

They were elected in not solely because arabs like death or whatever you believe.

None of the zionist crew around here has even discussed any kind of solution other than "obliterate the Palestinians. They voted for hamas, so they must all die."

Seriously, do you guys think that genocide is the answer?

Who....who has said that?

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

You can’t build a prosperous country when you are paying your population to murder its neighbours. Insurance, banking, investment, education, all held back just from the pay to slay system. You must be aware that the PA pays people to murder jews?

They just need to say enough is enough and come to the table and guarantee Israel’s peace.

Ah, more Netanyahu garbage.

Do you know that Israel pays its soldiers to kill palestinians?

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Ah, more Netanyahu garbage.

Do you know that Israel pays its soldiers to kill palestinians?

Palestinians of all stripes are financially motivated by their government (pay to slay system) to murder jewish people, that to you is the same as a country having a military?

Earlier, your solution to what Hamas did was for Israel to open the border to Gaza.

Whatever you are reading or copy pasting from is horrible.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Wait a second. There were people in this land loooooong before Judiasm was established. The Canaanites and the Babylonians are just easy examples to reference. So to say the Jews were the first people in the land is just wrong. Kind of like saying Columbus discovered America. Nice fallacy and good children's story, but not even remotely accurate. I think this part of the larger problem. The historical Harry Potter fan fiction is being taken as historically accurate rather than understanding many of the stories are just that, stories with plenty of embellishments. People that take their "holy texts" as historically accurate accounts

So getting back to who originally owned the land and can prove provenance in modern terms, it was actually the Ottomans? So they were the ones who really got screwed over? Maybe it should be the Turks laying claim to the lands and make this really interesting.

Hold on. Jews are a nation, not a religion. Perhaps we should call them Israelites to make a more clear distinction. They originated in what is now called Palestine. Babylon is in modern day Iraq, that is not even bordering Israel. Canaanites, however, is a correct example except that it is the name of peoples of Canaan, which is the ancient name for the region, and Israelites were one if them. Israelites are original people in the land, along with other Canaan peoples, as you can read below. It is based in scientific sources, not religious sources. The name Israel was first confirmed on Egyptian Stele, not in Torah. Jews, or Israelites if you will, are indigenous people of Palestine, and Arabs are not. Arguing that is revising history.

Still, I can agree with you in two things. Torah is a fairly tale and the ancient ownership does not matter.


Israelites (/ˈɪzrəlaɪts, -riə-/;[1][2] Hebrew: בְּנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל‎, Bənēy Yīsrāʾēl, transl. 'Children of Israel') were a group of Semitic-speaking tribes in the ancient Near East who, during the Iron Age, inhabited a part of Canaan.[3][4][5][6]

The name of Israel first appears in the Merneptah Stele of ancient Egypt, dated to about 1200 BCE. Modern archaeology suggests that the Israelites branched out from the Canaanites through the development of Yahwism, a distinct monolatristic—and later monotheistic—religion centred on the national god Yahweh.[7][8][9][10][11] They spoke an archaic form of the Hebrew language, which was a regional variety of the Canaanite language, known today as Biblical Hebrew

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israelites


The demonym "Canaanites" serves as an ethnic catch-all term covering various indigenous populations—both settled and nomadic-pastoral groups—throughout the regions of the southern Levant or Canaan

Polities and peoples
Phoenician city states
Phoenicians
Philistines
Israelites
Moab
Ammon
Tjeker
Geshur
Edom

Canaanite languages
Phoenician
Ammonite
Moabite
Hebrew
Edomite

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaan

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

It's not about religion but then follows up with...





So it is about religion because religion is core to the identity of being Jewish. Otherwise you'd just identify where you were born and raised rather than whining about some connection to land you have never been to. So take religion out of this discussion and you're a Canadian kid whose roots are in Germany or Poland.



Wait a second. There were people in this land loooooong before Judiasm was established. The Canaanites and the Babylonians are just easy examples to reference. So to say the Jews were the first people in the land is just wrong. Kind of like saying Columbus discovered America. Nice fallacy and good children's story, but not even remotely accurate. I think this part of the larger problem. The historical Harry Potter fan fiction is being taken as historically accurate rather than understanding many of the stories are just that, stories with plenty of embellishments. People that take their "holy texts" as historically accurate accounts need to take a really deep breath and apply some critical thought to the books.



So getting back to who originally owned the land and can prove provenance in modern terms, it was actually the Ottomans? So they were the ones who really got screwed over? Maybe it should be the Turks laying claim to the lands and make this really interesting.

I won’t be baited by you and your clear lack of understanding of history and the intricacies of Jewish identity, none of which you care to understand. Israel is not going anywhere, its going to protect itself and all of its citizens, which includes two million Arabs. Have a goodnight.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

The point you missed is that several posters repeat the same misinformation after being informed they are incorrect. They have no interest in learning, just repeating talking points probably written by Iran. Those points have one purpose, vilification of Israel.

Do you feel all Italians share the same opinion? How am I supposed to know anything about BS?

I have no idea who wrote that statement for BS but it is clearly wrong and hurtful.

You must realize that the way you communicate is obnoxious right? Your version of the truth isn't the truth. Asking people to "get educated" makes you look like a pompous ass. Psychologists call this gaslighting and it's a sign of a highly abusive person.

Most of us around here, even the ones I disagree with are highly educated. If you can't speak to people around here without being abusive, then just go away

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by _Q_

You must realize that the way you communicate is obnoxious right? Your version of the truth isn't the truth. Asking people to "get educated" makes you look like a pompous ass. Psychologists call this gaslighting and it's a sign of a highly abusive person.

Most of us around here, even the ones I disagree with are highly educated. If you can't speak to people around here without being abusive, then just go away

Wrong, PA and Hamas pay their civilians to murder Jews. No matter how much you want to defend that practice by calling it something else, that is how it works.

In case anyone wants to read the wiki article that proves what is really going on: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palest...y_Martyrs_Fund

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Palestinians of all stripes are financially motivated by their government (pay to slay system) to murder jewish people, that to you is the same as a country having a military?

Earlier, your solution to what Hamas did was for Israel to open the border to Gaza.

Whatever you are reading or copy pasting from is horrible.

So they have a policy you disagree with. Am I allowed to bring up israeli policies that harm the Palestinians? Or is that not allowed in the apartheid state?

[FlamesAddiction]

The IDF also has this to face if they launch a ground war:

Spoiler!

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Beninho

I won’t be baited by you and your clear lack of understanding of history and the intricacies of Jewish identity, none of which you care to understand. Israel is not going anywhere, its going to protect itself and all of its citizens, which includes two million Arabs. Have a goodnight.

Another point being missed by Lanny is Israel is a home to many people, not just Jewish people.

The fact is, the only reason anyone brings up jews being indigenous to the area is because of false claims that the Palestinians are indigenous and Jews are just European colonizers. I would love if both sides could make peace and be leaders in the region, together.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

How do you feel about occupying the holy land of the Indigenous peoples of Vancouver Island?

Beninho and Nage_Waza both skipped over this, but I'm genuinely curious to hear their thoughts on it.

Indigenous people also claim that their land holds special cultural and spiritual value to them. Should they be granted their lands back? They are the original holders of the land.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by _Q_

So they have a policy you disagree with. Am I allowed to bring up israeli policies that harm the Palestinians? Or is that not allowed in the apartheid state?

Can’t you ever say, “holy crap, that is disgusting, I didn’t know that, I can see why Jews are afraid.”

There is a lot to discuss and learn, but closing your eyes doesn’t make for a fair discussion.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Hold on. Jews are a nation, not a religion.

Sure, and so are Raider fans.