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Old 05-18-2008, 06:20 PM   #921
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For the record, I agree that Clinton has been held to an unfair standard by some.

But on what planet is that the result of Obama's double standard? What does Obama have to do with how Hillary is depicted in the media?!?
He should have done what liberals do best: Scream bloody murder, call for their resignations, promise to pass PC laws that would outlaw such behaviour, feel women's pain.

He should at least have denounced such sexist speech. McCain would have.
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Old 05-18-2008, 07:04 PM   #922
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He should at least have denounced such sexist speech. McCain would have.
In a parallel universe? McCain didn't. He's at least as well positioned as Obama to do that. In fact, he stands to gain from doing that--he'd look generous while prolonging the democratic contest to his own benefit.

Maybe McCain suffers from some of the "situational ethics" you have such a problem with.
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Old 05-18-2008, 10:28 PM   #923
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In a parallel universe? McCain didn't. He's at least as well positioned as Obama to do that. In fact, he stands to gain from doing that--he'd look generous while prolonging the democratic contest to his own benefit.

Maybe McCain suffers from some of the "situational ethics" you have such a problem with.
McCain could have defended Hilliary but, the result would have more than likely hurt Hilliary in the primaries. Regardless of McCain's motives Obama's machine would play up the notion that Hilliary was the choice of Republicans. McCain can't be seen to be taking sides in the Democratic primaries or trying to effect their outcome.
McCain did speak out when some Republicans used the racism of Rev Wright in an attack ads against Obama. The difference was that it was Republicans doing the attacking.
Obama's silence when supporters of his make sexist remarks speaks to his character. The Democratic party's silence testifies to their limited interest in women's equality.
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Old 05-18-2008, 11:31 PM   #924
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Obama's silence when supporters of his make sexist remarks speaks to his character. The Democratic party's silence testifies to their limited interest in women's equality.
X_x.

Really?

Really?

Look out! Here comes the Fallacy train!
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Old 05-18-2008, 11:39 PM   #925
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There isn't a candidate left that I feel good about voting for at this point. It's sad.
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Old 05-19-2008, 12:02 AM   #926
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There isn't a candidate left that I feel good about voting for at this point. It's sad.
Really? I'm not an Obama kinda guy, being more right wing than left, but Obama's candidacy is intriguing. Were it Hillary vs. McCain, that's two establishment folks fighting it out, boring.

Watching Obama leap onto the scene is pretty exciting, and at the least he offers a different way of dealing with international relations.

Had Ron Paul not been disclosed as such a racist, I'd otherwise have wanted him to win the Republican nomination. When the news about his newsletter came out, I was pretty shocked. I suppose he always was a fringe player anyway, but still, I fancy myself a Libertarian, and he's the closest of all the candidates to that ideal. But I'd never vote for him given his disclosed history.

Obama has already had the dirt thrown at him, while McCain has had an easy run. Obama is primed to win the presidency. He'll surge in the fall, because I expect McCain has a lot of bad history that is about to come out. First, he's not really a conservative, and second, he flip-flops more than Kerry. And I suppose those two problems are related.

Hopefully, Obama won't have enough influence or foolhardiness to wreak a socialist agenda on the US, and will be an intelligent president who really thinks before acting, unlike Dubya.
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Old 05-19-2008, 01:18 AM   #927
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She's going to lose because she's a poor candidate.

End of story.
Clinton is going to lose because Obama is a great candidate. At least that's my perspective.
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Old 05-19-2008, 01:49 AM   #928
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Obama has already had the dirt thrown at him, while McCain has had an easy run. Obama is primed to win the presidency. He'll surge in the fall, because I expect McCain has a lot of bad history that is about to come out. First, he's not really a conservative, and second, he flip-flops more than Kerry. And I suppose those two problems are related.
You might be right but, I was thinking if anything it would play out the opposite way. McCain has been under the spotlight for decades. His failings have been well documented. Obama on the other hand has had the spotlight on him for under a year and if the Republicans have anything damning on him they are likely holding on to it until the Democrats have committed to him offically.

Personally I don't like McCain but, if I could vote in the States I would probably vote for him in the hope that he would pick judges who would respect the constitution. Another plus would be that with the Democrats controlling both houses a Republican president wouldn't get much of his agenda through. As a general rule the less legislation that is passed, the better it is for the average American.
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Old 05-19-2008, 06:04 AM   #929
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Really? I'm not an Obama kinda guy, being more right wing than left, but Obama's candidacy is intriguing. Were it Hillary vs. McCain, that's two establishment folks fighting it out, boring.

Watching Obama leap onto the scene is pretty exciting, and at the least he offers a different way of dealing with international relations.

Had Ron Paul not been disclosed as such a racist, I'd otherwise have wanted him to win the Republican nomination. When the news about his newsletter came out, I was pretty shocked. I suppose he always was a fringe player anyway, but still, I fancy myself a Libertarian, and he's the closest of all the candidates to that ideal. But I'd never vote for him given his disclosed history.

Obama has already had the dirt thrown at him, while McCain has had an easy run. Obama is primed to win the presidency. He'll surge in the fall, because I expect McCain has a lot of bad history that is about to come out. First, he's not really a conservative, and second, he flip-flops more than Kerry. And I suppose those two problems are related.

Hopefully, Obama won't have enough influence or foolhardiness to wreak a socialist agenda on the US, and will be an intelligent president who really thinks before acting, unlike Dubya.
McCain's biggest issues will be his running mate choice and how clean he can run.

I still think he will choose Joe Lieberman, which would be a great choice IMO. He will alienate the base, but really he never has been the choice of the base and what are they going to do, vote Democrat in protest? Nope. He'll win some moderate dem votes with that choice.

I think he MUST run a clean campaign and not throw any mud at Obama. He's been able to do that in the primaries (other Republicans, not Obama) because of the ease of his nomination. I think throwing mud at the golden boy (and I mean that in a complimentary way) would be a negative for McCain.

I just wish Obama would start talking policy. I don't blame him for not doing it so far, he hasn't had to. Why risk it? At some point, though, he will have to say some things that far left folks aren't going to like. He's had a little trouble with that with the whole Rev. Wright fiasco. He should've thrown that guy right under the bus immediately IMO. He needs to show that he is a strong and decisive leader when faced with adverse situations. His biggest issue so far, IMO. His running mate choice will be interesting as well, but not as important as McCain. No clue who he will pick...I just can't see Hillary being his choice....and I hope it's not Edwards either.
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Old 05-19-2008, 07:18 AM   #930
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So, Obama flew into Billings last night. I am a fireman at the airport, so we always have to work these events. (Not that I mind the overtime!) He is holding a "Town Hall for Working Families" today at one of the local high schools.....at 10:45am.

Now, I understand he's a busy man, but wouldn't you have an event centered around working families on either a day when they are likely not working, or at a time where working families could actually attend?

He is then speaking at Crow Agency, MT on the Crow Indian Reservation. I'd like to hear what his ideas are for the Reservations in the U.S. It may be good for him to see poverty greater than that of the south side of Chicago.

Hillary is not confirmed, but likely will be here Friday. It's a good feeling getting these candidates here, usually the nominee is a foregone conclusion by now (though it likely is) and Montana becomes just a flyover between battleground states.
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Old 05-19-2008, 08:14 AM   #931
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I just wish Obama would start talking policy. I don't blame him for not doing it so far, he hasn't had to. Why risk it? At some point, though, he will have to say some things that far left folks aren't going to like.

I agree, actually. If the far left wing of the party thinks Obama is going to present all their ideas on a national stage, my guess is they'll be disappointed. I can see Obama constructing a fairly moderate platform with one or two "lefty" planks, like a phased withdrawal from Iraq and a national health insurance program of some kind, probably modeled on Massachussetts.

After that, it's control spending, get out of debt, stimulate the economy, control emissions. Which will be McCain's platform too, incidentally. In the end, these two guys will be different only on wedge issues, which will make for a nasty campaign, but not mean a whole lot in terms of the presidency in the end.
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Old 05-19-2008, 09:43 AM   #932
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I fancy myself a Libertarian,
And you like Obama?

He's the furthest from a Libertarian you could possibly get.
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Old 05-19-2008, 09:45 AM   #933
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Another plus would be that with the Democrats controlling both houses a Republican president wouldn't get much of his agenda through. As a general rule the less legislation that is passed, the better it is for the average American.
Yep.

I hope McCain wins simply so that the Democrats don't control both the Presidency AND Congress.

Considering their approval rating and all.
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Old 05-19-2008, 09:53 AM   #934
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I agree, actually. If the far left wing of the party thinks Obama is going to present all their ideas on a national stage, my guess is they'll be disappointed. I can see Obama constructing a fairly moderate platform with one or two "lefty" planks, like a phased withdrawal from Iraq and a national health insurance program of some kind, probably modeled on Massachussetts.

After that, it's control spending, get out of debt, stimulate the economy, control emissions. Which will be McCain's platform too, incidentally. In the end, these two guys will be different only on wedge issues, which will make for a nasty campaign, but not mean a whole lot in terms of the presidency in the end.
Well I disagree.

Obama is more big government than McCain is....and control spending, get of the debt will likely not be a big issue with him.

874.35 billion is what he has proposed to spend so far.

And none of it, outside of spending MORE money on the Health Care System has been aimed at fixing the social programs, like Social Security....that need fixing.

If you think the debt is huge now....wait till Obama becomes elected.
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Old 05-19-2008, 10:15 AM   #935
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The second most watched video on youtube this morning:

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Old 05-19-2008, 10:35 AM   #936
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There isn't a candidate left that I feel good about voting for at this point. It's sad.
Really? I like all three! It's been win-win-win for me for a couple of months now, and I'm thrilled about it.

Someone with a brain is going into the White House. They all have their warts, but each and every one of them is a massive upgrade over the Bush administration.
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Old 05-19-2008, 11:47 AM   #937
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Well I disagree.

Obama is more big government than McCain is....and control spending, get of the debt will likely not be a big issue with him.

874.35 billion is what he has proposed to spend so far.

And none of it, outside of spending MORE money on the Health Care System has been aimed at fixing the social programs, like Social Security....that need fixing.

If you think the debt is huge now....wait till Obama becomes elected.
I don't know where your number comes from--a link would be nice. In the meantime, if you think Obama is fiscally irresponsible, you might check out factcheck.org's take on McCain's budget plan:
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...n_part_ii.html

Turns out McCain wasn't kidding when he said he knew nothing about economics....
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Old 05-19-2008, 12:03 PM   #938
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I don't know where your number comes from--a link would be nice. In the meantime, if you think Obama is fiscally irresponsible, you might check out factcheck.org's take on McCain's budget plan:
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...n_part_ii.html

Turns out McCain wasn't kidding when he said he knew nothing about economics....
McCain is far from being fiscally responsible too.

http://www.ntu.org/pdf/P080303_Obama...CostUpdate.pdf

Is the link to the Obama budget.

I wonder of the $845 billion for the global poverty act is included in there too.
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Old 05-19-2008, 12:09 PM   #939
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McCain is far from being fiscally responsible too.

http://www.ntu.org/pdf/P080303_Obama...CostUpdate.pdf

Is the link to the Obama budget.

I wonder of the $845 billion for the global poverty act is included in there too.

Thanks for that.

I'm sure you're right about the total--just glancing at it it looks more like about 400 in new spending, not 825. But I may not be reading it right.

Either way, one thing that isn't included in those numbers is increased revenues from allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire for taxpayers earning over 200,000 a year, which Obama has pledged to do. I don't know what kind of revenues we're talking about, but according to factcheck.org the Bush tax cuts, set to expire in 2010, cost the U.S. Gov't 1.1 trillion per year.
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Old 05-19-2008, 12:23 PM   #940
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Thanks for that.

I'm sure you're right about the total--just glancing at it it looks more like about 400 in new spending, not 825. But I may not be reading it right.

Either way, one thing that isn't included in those numbers is increased revenues from allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire for taxpayers earning over 200,000 a year, which Obama has pledged to do. I don't know what kind of revenues we're talking about, but according to factcheck.org the Bush tax cuts, set to expire in 2010, cost the U.S. Gov't 1.1 trillion per year.
I think Obama is basing a lot of his proposals on cutting the expenses in Iraq, and using that money to fund all those social programs.

Personally, I'd fix Social Security, and FULLY adopt the universal health care plan that was proposed a while back which would end up saving over 1 trillion after 10 years.

Both Hillary and Obama are only using certain parts of it.
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