Omar F*****G Khadr is getting $10.5 milion

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Like many people in this city, I'm not actually an Albertan originally. But that's beside the point. The Liberal Party is about as left as the CPC is right. Which is to say, not very left on the whole, but there some elements within it that are clearly and unambiguously leftist. So while it's not, like, the mirror image of the Rebel or anything, it clearly has a consistent slant that ought to be fairly obvious.

As for being "one of the more partisan posters on this board", are you suggesting that my view about the CBC would paint me as partisan as well? Who exactly do you think I voted for in 2015?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

It's mostly the 'don't-trust-government' types out in Alberta that are the 'echo chamber' you're referring to. I've been all over this great land of ours and Albertans are certainly a unique bunch within Canada.

Careful. Assuming only the 'other side' is guilty of or prone to echo chamber thinking is dangerously naive.

And I've also been to many parts of this country. I find British Columbians to be as much of a "unique bunch" as Albertans are, as Ontarians are and as Quebecers are. We all have our regional biases and predispositions.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

This is a far more controversial statement than you seem to think.

Did Peter12 hack your account or something?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

The CBC has been a Liberal Party mouthpiece for a long time. To consider it centrist, one must consider the Liberal Party itself centrist. Which, while generally accurate, starts to blow holes into the whole "vote splitting" and "uniting the left" Liberal/NDP arguments we've seen when such arguments become convenient for their supporters.

I think that's more confirmation bias than fact, to be honest. I've seen plenty of pieces from the CBC going after Trudeau since he was elected. And to be fair, the whole "unite the left" business tends to come more from the Liberal than the NDP side of things.

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

so the cbc largely reflects liberal party attitudes and the liberal party is largely/mostly centrist.

See, Corsi, Resolute is admittedly one of the more partisan posters on the board and yet he still views the CBC as a largely centrist news organization, even if he feels they pander somewhat to the liberal party of Canada (and their centrist position in Canadian politics).

It's mostly the 'don't-trust-government' types out in Alberta that are the 'echo chamber' you're referring to. I've been all over this great land of ours and Albertans are certainly a unique bunch within Canada.

To get back on topic, referring to the CBC as the 'Buzzfeed' of Canada really clarifies this viewpoint. I don't really know what the poster specifically means by it, nor do I really care, but there it is.

Have any of the Sun papers published opinion pieces with glowing endorsements of the Khadr civil award? I wouldn't know as I don't read them.

Well, if you actually bothered to read my post, I detailed objectively why CBC's online content lacks journalistic integrity, which is not a partisan sentiment at all. I would classify the CBC as a centrist organization overall with more left-leaning than right-leaning contributors, but they tend to represent a variety of viewpoints. My characterization of CBC online news as a "Buzzfeed-like" click generating machine is not related to any "don't-trust-government" attitude at all. It's not a political statement, and this sentiment was in fact echoed by the outgoing chair of the CRTC. Your attempt to characterize my viewpoint in this way really misses the mark.

I think the fact that you limit yourself in terms of media consumption is evident in both the combative tone that you take and your inability to take a step back and consider the merits of opposing arguments. The fact that organizations like Sun Media and the Toronto Star have clear biases does not mean they are incapable of producing good journalism on occasion. I read a wide variety of sources on a weekly basis, including the Globe, Toronto Star, Herald, the Economist, Maclean's, and even the CBC; and I find I'm much better for it. Flash, I would encourage you to do the same if you want to improve the depth of your understanding.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Like many people in this city, I'm not actually an Albertan originally. But that's beside the point. The Liberal Party is about as left as the CPC is right.

You don't have to be from the bubble to be in the bubble. Also, I did not start out suggesting you lived in an echo chamber, you used the echochamber to dismiss my point without addressing it. Oh, I must be biased.

As for being "one of the more partisan posters on this board", are you suggesting that my view about the CBC would paint me as partisan as well? Who exactly do you think I voted for in 2015?

If you can avoid making this personal, there is a lot of potential common ground.

It's no surprise that anti-cbc sentiment is more prominent in Alberta than in other Canadian provinces, as Albertans have a more negative view of their place in Canada and of the Federal government than basically any other province with the exception of maybe Quebec.

As an old vestige of the reform party movement, the anti-cbc schtick just doesn't have the traction in other areas of Canada. I've been hearing albertans talk about shutting down the cbc for more than 20 years. I don't think I've ever heard it in BC, even in bum#### nowhere's ville.

The conversative mindset is to be distrusting of government. That's easily identifiable in Canada's conservative stronghold of Alberta.

Overall, a slim majority (52%) of Canadians surveyed expressed support for the recent reductions in the CBC's budget - 19 percent voiced strong support, 33 percent moderate support. Forty-five percent were opposed (20% strongly, 25% moderately). (Four percent were unsure of their opinion.)

Regionally, this overall pattern of response was recorded in B.C., Ontario and Quebec. In the Atlantic provinces the poll found most opposed to the cuts (55% opposed versus 42% support); in Manitoba/Saskatchewan views were split; and, in Alberta support outweighed opposition by a two to one margin (62% versus 35%). There are also some differences along socio-demographic lines. Support of budget cuts to the CBC tends to rise with age - those under 35 were split (47% support versus 49% oppose) while those over 55 tended to support the cuts (55% versus 41%). Support for the CBC cuts is also higher among men than women (60% versus 44%, with 52% of women opposed).

Asked for their overall view on the CBC's budget now, a plurality of four in ten (43%) Canadians surveyed said that the CBC budget "is now at the right level", one in three (32%) said the budget "has been cut too far" while just over one in ten (13%) said it "should be cut further". (Twelve percent were unsure.)

Views on the overall adequacy of the CBC's new budget vary along regional lines. The position that the budget has been cut too far is most popular in Manitoba/Saskatchewan (38%), Ontario (34%) and the Atlantic region (40%) - in each case, as or almost as popular as satisfaction with the new status quo. Consistent with their stronger support for the recent cuts, Albertans were most likely to say further cuts could be made (21%). Quebecers were most satisfied that the CBC's budget is now at the right level (53%).

So it is not surprising that it would be a conservative albertan on an alberta centric message board that would compare the country's national broadcaster to a borderline gossip column.

It also shouldn't be surprising that posters from outside of Alberta notice this about Albertans represented on this message board.

The counter to CBC in Canada is post media, not exactly a left-leaning consortium of newspapers. It might be more readily apparent to residents of BC, as we enjoy one of the least diverse media landscapes in north america and probably the western world.

Even Ezra Freakin' Levant can see the reach of Canada's conservative monopoly on local news.

All 4 major Albertan newspapers endorsed Prentice for premiere during the last election, as a direct order from PostMedia's ownership in Toronto.

What's the most prominent left leaning media publication in Canada? The Tyee? Rabble (lol)?

Since 2008 Canada's media has taken a decidedly conservative viewpoint, it's really not that out there as an observation, you can just read the articles and opinion piece endorsements. Andrew Coyne, noted card carrying communist, resigned over it in the latest federal election.

At this point, not acknowledging this reality may be cause for concern for posters who feel they are impartial arbiters of truth.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Like many people in this city, I'm not actually an Albertan originally. But that's beside the point. The Liberal Party is about as left as the CPC is right. Which is to say, not very left on the whole, but there some elements within it that are clearly and unambiguously leftist. So while it's not, like, the mirror image of the Rebel or anything, it clearly has a consistent slant that ought to be fairly obvious.

As for being "one of the more partisan posters on this board", are you suggesting that my view about the CBC would paint me as partisan as well? Who exactly do you think I voted for in 2015?

Ha, that's a laugh. The liberals are about as far left as the PCs were right, but the CPC is a totally different animal. If you move away from the Harperites, yeah there is still a lot of progressive type sentiment, but the Alliance/Reform viewpoints are still the standard, which are firmly right of centre. The fact that Scheer was elected as leader just shows that point.

The CPC as a minority was very much a centrist/centre-right ruling party by necessity, not by design. The 4 years of Harper majority really solidified them as a right wing party.

As a more left-wing supporter there is a lot of things that the centrist Trudeau government does that I don't like. They campaigned on a left-wing platform but two years in, their actions and inactions have shown they are not a left leaning party. I never had a problem going back and forth between the Liberals or PCs back in the day as the differences were minor, but the reform stink still lingering on the CPC makes them unpalatable to me.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Zarley

Well, if you actually bothered to read my post, I detailed objectively why CBC's online content lacks journalistic integrity, which is not a partisan sentiment at all. I would classify the CBC as a centrist organization overall with more left-leaning than right-leaning contributors, but they tend to represent a variety of viewpoints. My characterization of CBC online news as a "Buzzfeed-like" click generating machine is not related to any "don't-trust-government" attitude at all. It's not a political statement, and this sentiment was in fact echoed by the outgoing chair of the CRTC. Your attempt to characterize my viewpoint in this way really misses the mark.

I think the fact that you limit yourself in terms of media consumption is evident in both the combative tone that you take and your inability to take a step back and consider the merits of opposing arguments. The fact that organizations like Sun Media and the Toronto Star have clear biases does not mean they are incapable of producing good journalism on occasion. I read a wide variety of sources on a weekly basis, including the Globe, Toronto Star, Herald, the Economist, Maclean's, and even the CBC; and I find I'm much better for it. Flash, I would encourage you to do the same if you want to improve the depth of your understanding.

This is a good post but, honestly, the resource-reward ratio for reading Sun articles just doesn't justify the effort for me. You have to read a thousand angry Rick Bell rants for every interesting article. It's not worth it.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

You don't have to be from the bubble to be in the bubble. Also, I did not start out suggesting you lived in an echo chamber, you used the echochamber to dismiss my point without addressing it.

Yes, I responded to your drive-by with a drive-by.

It's no surprise that anti-cbc sentiment is more prominent in Alberta than in other Canadian provinces, as Albertans have a more negative view of their place in Canada and of the Federal government than basically any other province with the exception of maybe Quebec.

It's no surprise that anti-CBC sentiment is more prevalent here, because it mirrors anti-Liberal party sentiment. The average Albertan is more conservative than the average Canadian, and thus more out of step with the CBC's average positioning.

As an old vestige of the reform party movement, the anti-cbc schtick just doesn't have the traction in other areas of Canada. I've been hearing albertans talk about shutting down the cbc for more than 20 years. I don't think I've ever heard it in BC, even in bum#### nowhere's ville.

No one's talking about shutting down the CBC. I've certainly heard the sentiment that the CBC is a mouthpiece for the liberal party in BC, Saskatchewan, Ontario, everywhere really.

The conversative mindset is to be distrusting of government. That's easily identifiable in Canada's conservative stronghold of Alberta.

Depends who's in power, unsurprisingly.

So it is not surprising that it would be a conservative albertan on an alberta centric message board that would compare the country's national broadcaster to a borderline gossip column.

I'm assuming you're talking about Zarley, who as he's noted was more talking about form than ideology.

The counter to CBC in Canada is post media, not exactly a left-leaning consortium of newspapers.

Obviously true in respect of the Sun papers, which are basically just trash. Somewhat less so with regard to things like the Calgary Herald and Edmonton Journal. It seems to me more that they're looking to capitalize on market niches rather than trying to espouse a political ideology to the masses.

I mean you're from BC, can you honestly suggest that the Vancouver Sun or the Province are bastions of right wing propaganda?

All 4 major Albertan newspapers endorsed Prentice for premiere during the last election, as a direct order from PostMedia's ownership in Toronto.

The fact that you think this is evidence of right wing bias is telling in and of itself. The realistic options for Premier during the last election were Notley, Prentice and Brian Jean. The fact that they endorsed Prentice rather than Notley suggests they're right wing? I mean, I'm not even arguing that the ownership is or isn't right wing itself, I don't have an opinion on that. This just seems like a terrible example.

At this point, not acknowledging this reality may be cause for concern for posters who feel they are impartial arbiters of truth.

If there's one thing that's certain, it's that you're not the guy we should look to determine which posters are or aren't impartial.

[Tinordi]

This conversation, which has morphed into a discussion about the Alberta bubble, reminded me of the following article. I've lived in many different provinces but am from Alberta. This article is 100% bang on.

The Definitive Ranking of the Most Easily Offended Provinces

1. Alberta

Alberta is constantly mad. At various moments they have been mad about Sunday movies and seat belts and daylight savings time and the metric system and rock music and the French and transgender bathrooms and themselves. It is a province fuelled not by the energy locked away in the oil sands but by an all-consuming fire of anger in their hearts that I can only assume is the inevitable result of having a province founded by intensely sexually-repressed fundamentalist farmers. Anything bad that ever happens is never an accident of nature or an unintended consequence of a well-meaning idea; it is the result of deliberate sabotage by the federal government or the NDP or people on welfare or the CBC or hippies or the Rothschilds or all of the above in one great freedom-hating orgy. Alberta will never stop getting mad about everything, which is why they are the funniest province.

https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/x...nded-provinces

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I mean you're from BC, can you honestly suggest that the Vancouver Sun or the Province are bastions of right wing propaganda?

Well, if you're comparing those papers against crap like Vice, PressProgress and the National Observer...

Edit: lol! Trust Tinordi to provide an example by way of his typical drive by posting style!

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I mean you're from BC, can you honestly suggest that the Vancouver Sun or the Province are bastions of right wing propaganda?

The Sun is a bit more left than the Province but I would still peg the majority of their contributors as centrist or centre-right. I can't speak to the Journal but the Herald generally leans to the right. Out of all the major cities and publications in Canada, I can only think of one, The Star, that consistently skews left. Meanwhile, Sun Media has a major presence in almost every city, Post Media is obviously a centre-right syndicate, and even the G&M has been trending centre-right for a while now.

The idea that there is a clear liberal bias in Canadian media isn't based in reality.

[Tinordi]

The Vancouver Sun and Province are unquestionably right wing papers. All Postmedia papers are. This is a question?

[CliffFletcher]

This analysis of media bias is unintelligible without any definition of left and right, conservative and liberal. Social and economic values no longer align tidily, which is why you have to look at them independently, and why traditional political alignments are tearing apart in the West. For instance, is globalism and open borders a right-wing or a left-wing aim? To a traditional working class union supporter it's right-wing. To a progressive urbanite it's leftist.

Almost all mainstream media in Canada are pro free enterprise and socially progressive. This leaves the anti-corporate left denouncing them as corporate stooges and social conservatives denouncing them as out of touch cosmopolitan elitists.

Canada's largest newspaper, the Globe and Mail, doesn't even pretend to address the concerns of a 58 year old siding installer in Kamloops. It's a paper for the educated, urban, and affluent, and displays all the assumption and values you would expect to find in its readership.

The CBC's mission of afflicting the comfortable and comforting the afflicted has led them to become banner-waving champions in anything to do with culture and identity. The values and attitudes of half of Canadians regarding social issues are anathema to the CBC. Which is hardly the hallmark of a centrist institution.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Canada's largest newspaper, the Globe and Mail, doesn't even pretend to address the concerns of a 58 year old siding installer in Kamloops. It's a paper for the educated, urban, and affluent.

That's because the Globe and Mail doesn't pretend to address anything West of Thunder Bay.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The CBC's mission of afflicting the comfortable and comforting the afflicted has led them to become banner-waving champions in anything to do with culture and identity. The values and attitudes of half of Canadians regarding social issues are anathema to the CBC. Which is hardly the hallmark of a centrist institution.

I don't really understand what you're saying here? Which values and attitudes are anathema(!) to the CBC?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Makarov

I don't really understand what you're saying here? Which values and attitudes are anathema(!) to the CBC?

The ones rooted in bigotry.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Makarov

I don't really understand what you're saying here? Which values and attitudes are anathema(!) to the CBC?

A great many Canadians believe the reserve system should be done away with and indigenous Canadians should be treated like everyone else, for example. You will never hear anyone on CBC radio even hint that such an opinion in widespread, let alone treat is seriously or give it any kind of credence.

Jordan Peterson is the unquestionably the most well-known and influential academic in Canada at the moment. Is there another professor in the country whose videos get 50k views on Youtube on the same day they're posted? Regardless of what you think about his politics, he's a genuine public intellectual. One would imagine the CBC would be doing the proud Canadian thing and featuring him in all sorts of flattering profiles and discussions. Instead, the one interview they did with him was embarrassing in its lack of professionalism.

[Frequitude]

Ballsy move by Trudeau. Assuming Khadr would have won (and won more), Trudeau really stuck his neck out to save taxpayer dollars. 99% of politicians would have probably let the courts be "responsible" for giving this guy money.

Hate to say it, but I commend him. (again, assuming Khadr would have won and won more)

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by rubecube

The ones rooted in bigotry.

Do you think there's any scope for debate on social issues?