Toronto Blue Jays - Offseason Thread - Page 44 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

JiriHrdina · 12-31-2016, 05:33 PM

Proof they have little respect around the league? Or is that just in your head?

RedHot25 · 12-31-2016, 05:48 PM

Sigh.

troutman · 12-31-2016, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Proof they have little respect around the league? Or is that just in your head?

I just entered "Blue Jays most" in Google, and "hated" was immediately suggested!

TheAlpineOracle · 12-31-2016, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Proof they have little respect around the league? Or is that just in your head?

It's pretty well reported in the US baseball media that players and agents do not like dealing with Jays management at all. Even their own players came out two years ago and said they were flat out lied to in spring training.

I could list many many instances over the past few years alone that would demonstrate this fact, but you'll continue to ignore them so they aren't worth repeatingfoe the hundred time. So can you give me any examples that would show I'm wrong and they are respected?

And for the record, I'm not calling them cheap. 165M is a healthy payroll. Im saying this whole Edwin was unnecessary. Should have cut ties and moved on. This doesn't happen in any other organization because no other teams have to worry about the blowback on their other businesses. Players know this is a business and I'm sure would respect a lot more just being told you are moving on than blowing smoke up their ass.

TheAlpineOracle · 12-31-2016, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troutman

I just entered "Blue Jays most" in Google, and "hated" was immediately suggested!

Ha. I think we can blame that on Jose and not management.

JiriHrdina · 12-31-2016, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

It's pretty well reported in the US baseball media that players and agents do not like dealing with Jays management at all.

If it is well reported then provide some links? Honestly - if they are out there I'd like to see them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

I could list many many instances over the past few years alone that would demonstrate this fact, but you'll continue to ignore them so they aren't worth repeatingfoe the hundred time. So can you give me any examples that would show I'm wrong and they are respected?

Burden of proof rests with you. I've made no claim that they are respected because honestly I don't know either way if they are. But you are making a definitive statement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

And for the record, I'm not calling them cheap. 165M is a h
ealthy payroll. Im saying this whole Edwin was unnecessary. Should have cut ties and moved on. This doesn't happen in any other organization because no other teams have to worry about the blowback on their other businesses. Players know this is a business and I'm sure would respect a lot more just being told you are moving on than blowing smoke up their ass.

My understanding is that the way things played out they:
- Gave Edwin an offer with a deadline
- Extended that timeline to give him more time than originally provided, after which they would move on
- They then moved on

So not sure what you wanted them to do differently.

TheAlpineOracle · 12-31-2016, 06:20 PM

I'm not trying to start some big argument here, because we both know I'm not
Going change my opinion on Jays management and neither are you. So it's not productive.

I'm just saying the way this whole Edwin thing was handled was brutal and it would have been better off for the organization had they just said from the get go they were moving on.

TheAlpineOracle · 12-31-2016, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

If it is well reported then provide some links? Honestly - if they are out there I'd like to see them.

Burden of proof rests with you. I've made no claim that they are respected because honestly I don't know either way if they are. But you are making a definitive statement.

My understanding is that the way things played out they:
- Gave Edwin an offer with a deadline
- Extended that timeline to give him more time than originally provided, after which they would move on
- They then moved on

So not sure what you wanted them to do differently.

In my opinion, I don't believe for a second they extended that offer. As I demonstrated above, once Morales was signed it doesn't fit into their budget.

JiriHrdina · 12-31-2016, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

In my opinion, I don't believe for a second they extended that offer. As I demonstrated above, once Morales was signed it doesn't fit into their budget.

For sure. I agree that once they signed Morales the 80M offer was off the table. The timeline extension was made before that
This is the most complete and IMHO fair review of the timeline that I've seen:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb...s-encarnacion/

It highlights that the Jays appear to be pretty transparent with EE about them moving on. It also appears that both sides were making assumptions about the other side, that ended up being wrong.

I think the agent bungled this badly. With 20/20 now, once can suggest that the Jays could have been more patient, but tough to say that based on what they thought they knew at the time.

Cappy · 01-02-2017, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

In my opinion, I don't believe for a second they extended that offer. As I demonstrated above, once Morales was signed it doesn't fit into their budget.

If the EE deal didn't fit in the budget how could they take a run at Fowler who was offered a similar deal?

What happens when JB signs for 1-2 years at 20 million??? There is EEs money

TheAlpineOracle · 01-02-2017, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cappy

If the EE deal didn't fit in the budget how could they take a run at Fowler who was offered a similar deal?

What happens when JB signs for 1-2 years at 20 million??? There is EEs money

That has nothing to do with EE? The Jays need to sign one or two outfielders with the money they have left as well as some bullpen and backup catching help. They cannot spend it on adding another DH or 1st base which they already have three on the active roster (Smoak, Pearce, Morales). With the budget they have left signing EE after Morales/Pearce would mean the Jays would be going with two AAA players in the outfield.

jayswin · 01-02-2017, 11:28 AM

Got to agree with Alpine, you can debate the merits of how up front the Jays were about being in on EE from the beginning, or who was reporting what and when. But it was pretty clear that Morales was a replacement for Encarnacion and any serious offers ended then.

There was simply no way the Jays were going to forget about shoring up necessary holes so they could replace Edwin with Morales then sign Edwin after all because he could be had at a deal. They just weren't going to have Morales, Smoak and Edwin all occupying two postions, full stop.

Rogers already had to up their payroll because they recognized that if they stuck to the usual $130-$140m they literally couldn't field a major league line-up without clearly signaling a rebuild/inability to field a completive line-up to the fans.

Anything we heard after the fact was BS connections, imo.

868904 · 01-02-2017, 04:05 PM

I really don't see it straight up as EE versus Morales.

I think the FO really wanted Fowler. They wouldn't have been able to sign both Fowler and EE, there simply would not have been enough money.

When EE took his time to accept, Jays moved on to Morales to at least cover the DH spot, and then focused on Fowler.

That's how I see it based on everything the FO and Gibbons said in terms of what they wanted to address in the offseason.

Sucks for them that the Cardinals blew them out of the water with the pricing on Fowler.

If the Jays had landed Fowler and Morales, I don't think people would be lamenting the loss of EE and Bautista.

Cappy · 01-03-2017, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

That has nothing to do with EE? The Jays need to sign one or two outfielders with the money they have left as well as some bullpen and backup catching help. They cannot spend it on adding another DH or 1st base which they already have three on the active roster (Smoak, Pearce, Morales). With the budget they have left signing EE after Morales/Pearce would mean the Jays would be going with two AAA players in the outfield.

It doesn't matter what position he played, they all fill out the starting nine. Instead of going for a guy like pearce they go for a OFer for the same price.

Getting JB and Pearce is equivalent to EE and an OF

They still need two starters either way they went so it doesn't change that fact. It only changes what part of the field they play

Parallex · 01-03-2017, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Hazel MaeVerified account
‏@thehazelmae
Source informed me #BlueJays RHP Aaron Sanchez has joined @borascorp and is now being represented by super agent Scott Boras. #MLB

Aw crud.

TheAlpineOracle · 01-03-2017, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parallex

Aw crud.

Brutal.

JTech780 · 01-03-2017, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parallex

Aw crud.

He is under team control till 2020, but probably better off trading him now while he has trade value, closer he gets to UFA the lower his trade value goes. Toronto basically has zero chance of re-signing him now, Boras always goes to market.

If this happened under the previous regime, I am sure he would have been traded out of spite.

TheAlpineOracle · 01-03-2017, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTech780

He is under team control till 2020, but probably better off trading him now while he has trade value, closer he gets to UFA the lower his trade value goes. Toronto basically has zero chance of re-signing him now, Boras always goes to market.

If this happened under the previous regime, I am sure he would have been traded out of spite.

Hasn't Boras flat out said in the past he won't deal with Toronto?

TheAlpineOracle · 01-03-2017, 05:53 PM

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/r...to-task-022314

No love lost for sure. Interestingly enough, Morales was a Boras client back when these comments were made. I wonder if he still is.

JTech780 · 01-03-2017, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/r...to-task-022314

No love lost for sure. Interestingly enough, Morales was a Boras client back when these comments were made. I wonder if he still is.

Morales left Boras in 2015 and went to the Wasserman Group. Tulo is still a Boras client, but his contract was already in place when we traded for him.