Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[MoneyGuy]

Does the UCP pay for the propaganda hour? I’m being sarcastic as I know they don’t but they should. I listened to a few minutes when Kenney did the first one. I listen to CHED a lot but the radio goes off when the idiot hour starts.

[Dynamic]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

https://twitter.com/user/status/1646597244316012549

This is insane.

Reducing industry safety standards for driver training will...... improve safety?

I'm going to play devils advocate here because I actually like this change. I live in a small town and my bussing was cancelled because of no drivers. The town is big enough that a large portion of it it not really walking distance for young kids. You don't realize how much of a s**t show it is until it happens. I had to change my work hours to arrange drop offs and pickups. The schools were not designed for the amount of drivers doing drop offs and pick-ups so there are literal fender benders every week and a traffic jams around town when schools open/close. I absolutely loathe pickups and drop offs.

Cruising the local towns FB page it is pretty apparent that the new training requirements made things VERY difficult to recruit drivers. Our school division has its own transportation department but not in our town. So people had to either drive hours each day for training or spend a couple weeks there away from home for the MELT course. It wasn't even a money thing because the school division paid for the training. It was just the training was too long, was not able to be delivered locally, and overly burdensome.

It is not like training is being completely thrown away. You still need to get your class 2 and "S" endorsement. I don't remember school bus training being a factor in any major accidents before the MELT requirements. It was a knee jerk reaction that sounded good on paper but it really messed things up for many many school divisions, parents, and kids.

[dsavillian]

Originally Posted by Dynamic

I'm going to play devils advocate here because I actually like this change. I live in a small town and my bussing was cancelled because of no drivers. The town is big enough that a large portion of it it not really walking distance for young kids. You don't realize how much of a s**t show it is until it happens. I had to change my work hours to arrange drop offs and pickups. The schools were not designed for the amount of drivers doing drop offs and pick-ups so there are literal fender benders every week and a traffic jams around town when schools open/close. I absolutely loathe pickups and drop offs.

Cruising the local towns FB page it is pretty apparent that the new training requirements made things VERY difficult to recruit drivers. Our school division has its own transportation department but not in our town. So people had to either drive hours each day for training or spend a couple weeks there away from home for the MELT course. It wasn't even a money thing because the school division paid for the training. It was just the training was too long, was not able to be delivered locally, and overly burdensome.

It is not like training is being completely thrown away. You still need to get your class 2 and "S" endorsement. I don't remember school bus training being a factor in any major accidents before the MELT requirements. It was a knee jerk reaction that sounded good on paper but it really messed things up for many many school divisions, parents, and kids.

Thanks for adding a different perspective


I'm curious to see what the outcome of this will be. With the unemployment rate as low as it is, how many people out there will be attracted to this occupation now that the barrier to entry is lower? I would think that paying better wages would be more likely to work in today's economy, but IANA economist.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by dsavillian

Thanks for adding a different perspective


I'm curious to see what the outcome of this will be. With the unemployment rate as low as it is, how many people out there will be attracted to this occupation now that the barrier to entry is lower? I would think that paying better wages would be more likely to work in today's economy, but IANA economist.

Wait till the upcoming recession hits and people start losing jobs left and right.

[dsavillian]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Wait till the upcoming recession hits and people start losing jobs left and right.

at that point, lowering the training requirements isn't necessary to attract employees.

[GGG]

I think the most important question is Should this training be required. Nowhere in the eliminating of this requirement does that appear to be being discussed. This really should be framed as the extra training this program provided did not appear to change statistics relative to other jurisdictions who didn’t have it or do have it and if it changed outcomes in Alberta. It’s tough with Covid to get good data but this should not be framed as a decision to reduce red tape and get more drivers.

The arguments around needing more bus drivers is rather moot. that should be addressed with better pay / access to training. The whole release centers around quotes from people who actively benefit from reducing training requirements.

Can we have data drive decision making rather than opinion.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by dsavillian

at that point, lowering the training requirements isn't necessary to attract employees.

Having fewer students safely make it to school will reduce the stress on the educational system, though. The UCP playing 4D chess here.

[Dynamic]

Originally Posted by GGG

I think the most important question is Should this training be required. Nowhere in the eliminating of this requirement does that appear to be being discussed. This really should be framed as the extra training this program provided did not appear to change statistics relative to other jurisdictions who didn’t have it or do have it and if it changed outcomes in Alberta. It’s tough with Covid to get good data but this should not be framed as a decision to reduce red tape and get more drivers.

The arguments around needing more bus drivers is rather moot. that should be addressed with better pay / access to training. The whole release centers around quotes from people who actively benefit from reducing training requirements.

Can we have data drive decision making rather than opinion.

IMO is seemed to be working before but then the Humboldt tragedy happened. Then it became this blanket policy of "well if we are including truck drivers we NEED to include school bus drivers" and it just kept rolling from there. More of knee jerk reaction and its very hard to argue against extra training for school bus drivers. I just think nobody thought about all the other negative outcomes from creating that new significant barrier for what is already a pretty thankless and low paying job.

[Torture]

Originally Posted by GGG

I think the most important question is Should this training be required. Nowhere in the eliminating of this requirement does that appear to be being discussed. This really should be framed as the extra training this program provided did not appear to change statistics relative to other jurisdictions who didn’t have it or do have it and if it changed outcomes in Alberta. It’s tough with Covid to get good data but this should not be framed as a decision to reduce red tape and get more drivers.

The arguments around needing more bus drivers is rather moot. that should be addressed with better pay / access to training. The whole release centers around quotes from people who actively benefit from reducing training requirements.

Can we have data drive decision making rather than opinion.

Yup, I'd argue that the root problem is that it's just not a very attractive job. Poor pay, split shifts, dealing with a bunch of whiney kids. No thanks.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Dynamic

IMO is seemed to be working before but then the Humboldt tragedy happened. Then it became this blanket policy of "well if we are including truck drivers we NEED to include school bus drivers" and it just kept rolling from there. More of knee jerk reaction and its very hard to argue against extra training for school bus drivers. I just think nobody thought about all the other negative outcomes from creating that new significant barrier for what is already a pretty thankless and low paying job.

That certainly MAY have happened but again that isn’t using data to make decisions. Alberta is the only jurisdiction with this training policy

So are bus drivers shortages more acute in Alberta? Google says they were occurring elsewhere in Canada as well

And

Did Alberta incidents / km go down after implementing this policy and how did that compare to other jurisdictions to discount Covid affects.

This info would be available for governments. Again this may be the right decision, it may be impacting driver availability, it also may not be.

[iggy_oi]

The training isn’t the barrier, the low pay is.

[Dynamic]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

The training isn’t the barrier, the low pay is.

I've attended school council meetings the the exact words from the transportation department is that they can't attract people because the MELT requirement requires excessive travel and time commitment. Training is a barrier for some areas of the province.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Dynamic

I've attended school council meetings the the exact words from the transportation department is that they can't attract people because the MELT requirement requires excessive travel and time commitment. Training is a barrier for some areas of the province.

Ok. How many bus drivers have you spoken to about this?

The industry is struggling to retain staff that are already trained due to low wages and difficult working conditions.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Ok. How many bus drivers have you spoken to about this?

The industry is struggling to retain staff that are already trained due to low wages and difficult working conditions.

Exactly, the terrible hours alone has to be what turns most people away

[sleepingmoose]

I’m in the industry - not school buses but other buses - and the problem is across the industry in Alberta. It’s also one of the only provinces that introduced MELT for buses, not just trucks. Even if we get applicants, MELT added 2.5 weeks to our previous training program and just added needless red tape. The large cost of MELT at training schools also meant that we had a number of people get jobs with us (because we trained new people in MELT for class 2) then quit after they got their class two just to avoid the cost. It’s a waste of our time, and a spot someone else could’ve taken that would stay.

This is very welcome news in our group.

[para transit fellow]

An article from a industry magazine regarding MELT

https://www.trucknews.com/features/m...d-gaps-remain/

[Torture]

Originally Posted by Dynamic

I've attended school council meetings the the exact words from the transportation department is that they can't attract people because the MELT requirement requires excessive travel and time commitment. Training is a barrier for some areas of the province.

Southland and other companies could pay travel costs for people to attend training but nahh easier to just cancel it I guess.

[Dynamic]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Ok. How many bus drivers have you spoken to about this?

The industry is struggling to retain staff that are already trained due to low wages and difficult working conditions.

Lol my neighbor is a school bus driver, I have a school bus literally parked outside my front window much of the school year. I’m well aware of the working conditions and the pay and yes there was bus drivers at the school council meeting when the bomb was dropped about several bus routes being cancelled.

The pay and working conditions always sucked. However our town could always recruit enough stay at home moms and semi retired people who could make the weird schedule work and make a little money. I’m not saying that pay and working conditions are not a contributing factor for the school bus driver storage. The straw that broke the camels back for this town was MELT training requirements. I’ve lived in the area for over 30 years and ride the bus for 12 of those. I’ve never heard of cancelled routes until this year. I’m just telling you what I’ve been told, the MELT has messed things up for lots of people.

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by Torture

Yup, I'd argue that the root problem is that it's just not a very attractive job. Poor pay, split shifts, dealing with a bunch of whiney kids. No thanks.

Exactly...an owner of kids in this thread doesn't even want to drive their own to school.

Double the wages for those drivers and keep raising it until the positions are full.

[calculoso]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1647701632740888577