Ongoing US Mass Shooting Thread

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

To further your first point (I'm not necessarily for banning guns per se), but the right to have them as a hobby is a laughable counterpoint.

If some toy exploded killing people from time to time was someone's hobby it would be banned too. Sorry, but people lives>>>>>>>>>>hobby.

Hunting is different, however IMO

Hunting for survival? Or hunting for a hobby?

The only people who hunt for survival these days are nomadic peoples and tribesmen. And I would wager to say 90% of the time they are not using guns as much as spears, blunt weapons and traps. Many tribes have survived thousands of years without using firearms.

I have never agreed with hunting for a hobby. Much more manlier to hunt using a bow/arrow.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay

As of 2011, in Canada at least, the most widley used tool was a knife, not a gun.

While this is the US thread, it doesn't surprise me that knives are the weapon of choice for Canadian murderers seeing that it is much more difficult to get a firearm here. You're never going to stop people from killing each other. You can't get rid of all objects in the world someone could kill somone with, a well-placed fist could be used to do that. But why are they being easily supplied with equipment that can kill large amounts of people with minimal effort or face-to-face engagment? Just so people can keep their God-given right to shoot s*** while praising heaven almighty? So people like you can shoot at trees or cans or whatever? So people can hunt? I enjoy hunting, but we as a society certainly don't need guns to feed ourselves anymore. Does that small amount of enjoyment really off-set the deaths of thousands?

As soon as someone can rattle off 600 throwing knives per minute at 3000 ft/sec, you may have a point.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Does that small amount of enjoyment really off-set the deaths of thousands?

Ok, let's explore this a bit more then.

Why not limit the amount of alcohol available in drinks? yes yes i know, alcohol doesn't kill people but what it does do is impare judgement. People get all drinky and drivey and mow over a pedestrian or smash into a family car. Do people need to drink?

Why, in a country where the maximum posted speed limit you can legally travel is 110 km/h, do they allow the purchase of vehicle that are so powerful they can blow past that limit in under 7 seconds? How many accidents/deaths are caused due to "excessive speeds'? Why not limit the top speed of cars to say, 120 km/h, no more? Do people need 500HP supercharged engines?

What would your thoughts be on the goverment imposing the above in the name of public safety?

If you are as serious about saving lives as you seem to be, what are your thoughts on the above scenarios? I mean if it saves but just one life, would it not be worth it?

[Coach]

Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay

Ok, let's explore this a bit more then.

Why not limit the amount of alcohol available in drinks? yes yes i know, alcohol doesn't kill people but what it does do is impare judgement. People get all drinky and drivey and mow over a pedestrian or smash into a family car.

I would be completely in favour of each car coming standard with breathilizers that do not allow you to start your car if you are over the limit. I actually think it's insane that this is not the case when it could be implemented rather easily as they already do it for those who have been convicted of such things.

Why, in a country where the maximum posted speed limit you can legally travel is 110 km/h, do they allow the purchase of vehicle that are so powerful they can blow past that limit in under 7 seconds? How many accidents are caused due to "excessive speeds'? Why not limit the top speed of cars to say, 120 km/h, no more?

Another great question and one that I have asked myself from time to time. And the answer would be the same as above, I'm not sure why something like that hasn't been implemented. One could say it is an infringment on rights, but it's really not when it is illegal to go faster.

In the same vein of driving, I would also be completely for mandatory drivers testing each time you get you license renewed. I think this would do wonders to eliminate many of the poor drivers and accidents. If it costs me an hour every 5 years who cares? Do firearms licensees need to do more tests after they've received their licenses?

If you are as serious about saving lives as you seem to be, what are your thoughts on the above scenarios?

The problem with the above scenarios is they are not relevant to guns. Cars are made to transport people and we need transportation. Sometimes accidents happen and it is regretable. The things you mentioned above could help and I would be right beside you trying to get them implemented. Guns are made to kill things and we don't need to use them to kill the things that we need to kill anymore. We can domesticate and farm any animal.

No I ask you, would you be for either of the above scenarios to try and curb driving accidents? Why/why not? And if so, why do you see guns differently when they have killed far more people?

[GoinAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by MattyC

No I ask you, would you be for either of the above scenarios to try and curb driving accidents? Why/why not? And if so, why do you see guns differently when they have killed far more people?

I see we aren't actually all that different

I don't see guns any differently at all actually. Where I take expection is where some people seem to be all for the control of one item, but not others. I don't think most would agree with your opinion on my scenarios however, maybe I'll find I'm wrong.

Would I hand over my firearms if ordered to do so? Damn straight but I follow the law. I don't want to spend my life in jail or pay tens of thousands of dollars in fines for not complying.

What I find the hardest to deal with is the actions of so few affecting the legally purchased property of miilions but fully understand I'm not going to get much sympathy. It's not a fun side of the argument to be on.

But I'm willing to bet if my above scenarios became reality, the uproar would be deafening. Why? Because it would affect people from all walks of life.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I have never agreed with hunting for a hobby. Much more manlier to hunt using a bow/arrow.

I presume you mean hunting with a gun for a hobby?

I can see why some people enjoy it. However, I'm more a fishing person.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay

What I find the hardest to deal with is the actions of so few affecting the legally purchased property of miilions but fully understand I'm not going to get much sympathy. It's not a fun side of the argument to be on.

Because people en masse are stupid. And when you give stupid people dangerous things, bad things tend to happen whether it be guns or cars. So my stance on it would be, there's no way to determine all the people who are stupid enough, or sick enough to not be allowed to use a firearm for recreational use. So, apologies but, there is going to be no more recreational use for these things.

The same logic would apply for the car breathilizer. Society as a whole is not following the rules so, for those don't follow the rules, you arent allowed access to your product. You breached the agreement you made when purchasing it.

In the same vein, the NRA is directly OPPOSED to new-age technology that only allows the owner to shoot a gun. If you dont have a special band on your wrist, you can't use the gun. Why something like this wouldn't be now standard issue on all firearms is beyond me. Makes it to expensive? It's a tool for killing. The more people that can be priced out of using it the better, especially since it is generally those on the low end of the economic spectrum and those who obtain their guns illegally that use them for evil.

Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay

But I'm willing to bet if my above scenarios became reality, the uproar would be deafening. Why? Because it would affect people from all walks of life.

True, but should it really deter the powers that be when stupid people are opposed to smart ideas? Who are going to be the people complaining about taking a breath test to start their car? The ones who would generally fail that test would be my guess. Who's going to opposed governers are their cars? People who drive excessivly fast.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Originally Posted by MattyC

.

In the same vein, the NRA is directly OPPOSED to new-age technology that only allows the owner to shoot a gun. If you dont have a special band on your wrist, you can't use the gun. Why something like this wouldn't be now standard issue on all firearms is beyond me. Makes it to expensive? It's a tool for killing. The more people that can be priced out of using it the better, especially since it is generally those on the low end of the economic spectrum and those who obtain their guns illegally that use them for evil.

The (insane) thinking of the NRA/Lobbyists is that it is a Government control over their firearm (the systems can be used to remotely disable a weapon) and that is unacceptable.

Shopkeepers who try to sell these legal versions of firearms are getting death threats and threats to have their properties burned to the ground...just because they are stocking pistols with this feature.

Its not rational...

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

The (insane) thinking of the NRA/Lobbyists is that it is a Government control over their firearm (the systems can be used to remotely disable a weapon) and that is unacceptable.

Shopkeepers who try to sell these legal versions of firearms are getting death threats and threats to have their properties burned to the ground...just because they are stocking pistols with this feature.

Its not rational...

Apparently there's also some sort of condition in New jersey that once these become available for sale in the state, all guns sold in the state must have this feature. Which is causing a 2nd Amendment uproar.

As soon as someone gives the 2nd Amendment for holding their automatic weapon they should have to trade it in for a musket.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by cancer man

I haven't hunted since 1998 and going to put my rifles on sale.My wife said to turn them into the police and have them destroyed.
I'am on the fence 13 rifles probable 6 grand worth.Most of them are old never used.
My oldest is 1898 mauser 8 mm.I might just seal the barrel and use it as an ornament.
(But it will break my heart)any collectors?

Umm I'll take the K98....

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

Hypothetical question but I'll ask anyway. Would you give up your guns if you knew everyone else was and doing so would save lives?

If I knew that everyone, I mean EVERYONE turns the guns in (including gangbanger) I'd do it in a heart beat. I love hunting, I love target practice, I love long range shooting, but I'd give it up if I knew that everyone would be safer.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

Bwhahahahah Epic

Seriously though...lots of people who have never had the joy of directly slaughtering something have a difficult time understanding why people are so wrapped up in defending the honour of gunpowder...

I think people (even pro-gun) should be much more concerned about the lobbyists who can override the democratic will of most of the population when it comes to very modest gun control (i.e. increased background checks, selling of fingerprint scanner-secure firearms etc).

In fact the OVERALL ability of a well funded lobby to get more political traction than voters in the US should be a bigger concern of anyone who gives a f*** about the spirit of the US constitution.

I'd be willing for a stricter set of laws that makes sure that everyone follows a background check. Fingerprints, ect would be nice in a fairyland world but this kid that shot two, stabbed two and ran one over went through the tough process of getting a gun. I think that something like a yearly license that covers, fingerprints, and a mental eval ever year or 2 years would help in these situations.

the problem is that the only people that is going to go through that are the law abiding citizens and i'd be willing to bet that the majority of the gun deaths are inner city gang related stuff with illegal weapons.

the problem lies in the anti gun folks and the hardcore right pro gun people that want it "my way or the highway" crap. This goes for pretty much everything else down here too.

here is a list of things I'd like:

1. a federal gun license, if you have this license you can go to all 50 states without checking reciprocating laws.

2. Federal Gun Laws that are the same in every state.

3. Private sale background checks that are free. Where you can call the sheriff or Police and have them run the background of the buyer free

4. Stricter penalties on those who do straw sales/and or sell to those who can't own a weapon.

5. I'd be okay with Finger prints and mental evaluations every year or two. This wont help much but it may stop the idiots like this kid

6. Under no circumstances do I want to see a gun registry. Every country that has ever done that has led to confiscation. I don't care what anyone says, it will lead to it and I will never back anything that intends to register a gun.

7. strict penalties (stupid strict) for those who use guns in a crime. You'd be surprised how many idiots have gun crimes that are let out after a few months.

8. mandatory penalties for those who are arrested with both illegal narcotics and guns

9. Mandatory penalties for those who use a gun in a crime

I'd love to see the pro gun lobby be more proactive in supplying or help supply safe's, and proper storage. At U of Alabama students who hunt can bring their shotgun or hunting rifle to the UAPD to store them safely until they're needed to hunt. I love that idea since many students hunt, this gives them a safe place to store the weapon when they're not using them.

sad fact of the matter is that majority of these mass shootings only make the news because they happen in areas that aren't the ghetto and no one cares about the ghetto.

If this shooting happened in compton or 8Mile road in Detroit no one would care

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

A guy with a car is potentially dangerous, we heavily legislate who can drive a car, you have to pass a test, you have to have insurance, if you fail to meet specifics, then you will lose that ability to drive. In fact guns should be like cars, while not banned completely, heavily monitored and registered. I assume that this isn't what you have meant though.




And I'm arguing with an idiot.

Well driving a car is not a constitutional right, and I'm sorry you have to resort to name calling like a child.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by T@T

You do realise nobody cares about your hunting rifles/shotguns right? or are you one of those hicks that hunt deer with a 44 mag handgun equipped with a peep scope? or target shoot with an assault rifle?.

Per capita more Canadian's probably own hunting guns than Americans, but every American should look themselfs in the mirror and ask why they really feel the need for weapons made to kill another human.

I have a few AR15's I shoot em every once in a while but in reality I'm not a big fan of them. You can hunt with them here but they have to have a 10 round mag or plugged mag so that it only holds 10 rounds. I am not very accurate with one at 100 yards and wouldn't trust my shot to be effective to kill the animal quick. I don't have an AR10 (.308 calibre version) but those are damn good on wild hogs down here.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by DownInFlames

No doubt he's a good person and feels he shouldn't be punished for the actions of a minority of gun owners. The problem is the gun lobby is blocking any kind of gun control, even background checks, and people are dying because of it. Those deaths should be enough for him (and others like him) to budge a little from his position, but he's not willing. I can see why that makes people mad and resorting to insults.

I will say this, I'm not part of any gun lobby. NRA or any of the others don't speak for me and I don't have the same views as them.

I will say that I'd wish the NRA would just go away.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Oh yeah, count me in the group that's frustrated with his opinion knowing that him and the millions of Americans with the same view are a big part of why these tragedies keep happening, whether they think they are or not.

Honest question, Why am I the reason why this is happening? I feel that I'm very safe with my weapons, I feel that I'm very responsible with my weapons. I feel that I go above what most go for safety.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

Blaming medicines or psychotropic drugs is the latest NRA mind meld with their legion of sheep. Video games, and now drugs. It's been popular since the last fort hood shootings as the guy was on medication.
The weird thing is people in Canada, Japan Australia and the UK are taking the same drugs, just not near as many mass shootings.

The US takes probably more psychotropic medicine than all those other countries combined.

We go to the dr and tell them we are having a hard time paying attention and viola we get a prescription for Adderal or some other drug

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by MattyC

And then, with seemingly relative ease, they pick up a gun. A gun that, other than for shooting at random stuff, serves no purpose other than to kill. It's what it was made to do. It wasn't made so you can go shoot at a tree, whether that's what you do with it or not. They are made to kill things, and have been from the very beginning.

I have and do hunt, most of the meat I eat is deer/elk/moose. I don't own guns myself but my dad does. We don't need guns to have that type of meat.

People are dying. Because of a bunch of lunatics and idiots.... with guns.



They are made for killing things, not people. But people are also things, and get killed by other people with guns.

OT

Never hunted Moose or Elk, what kind of round do you use? What does it taste like?

[Coach]

Originally Posted by PIMking

Well driving a car is not a constitutional right.

It might have been if cars were invented in 1776. Society is vastly different when these were written, why is there such staunch support for keeping them the same? I'm genuinely curious. I hear Republicans spout about all these outdated things that need to be changed like social security, but see no need to change something that was written when guns took 2 minutes to reload one shot and didn't have bombs that could level whole cities with 1 button. In essence, the 2nd Amendment could be used to secure someone's "right" to hold a nuke as they are under the category of "arms" no? You need at least one to protect against your ever-feared tyranny anyways.

How does any of this make sense?

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Sad. But blaming the NRA and politicians is stupid. An idiot with opportunity and a mental problem did this. You literally live in a state with some of the most restrictive gun laws in America. If you have a California ID and wish to buy a gun out of state, you will not be granted one.

ya know I've lived Canada all my life and in Germany and Korea for short stints of my life (early 20s) and it has provided me with a unique perspective. One in which I live in an area with no worry that something like this will ever happen. The reason for this is clear: it's cultural. As cultural as drinking beer is at every event or buying soju because it's cheaper than water. As cultural as Germany being effectively "closed" on Sunday. Every place I can shop isn't open. Even semi-trucks aren't allowed to drive on the autobahn on Sundays. As cultural as blowing off fireworks in the middle of downtown Berlin on New Years while police officers do nothing more than direct traffic because streets are halfway closed down because...beer/wine stands are set up. As cultural as having one of the most densely populated cities on the planet be within striking distance from one the saddest, most reclusive places on earth and not caring at all when that neighboring leader threatens war every year.

The culture in America (and in Canada) is greed and entitlement. *I* deserve everything because *I* have to deal with this. This is *my* right to being who *I* want to be. The sickness festers everywhere. And only the symptoms are half-heartedly treated via fierce words and dormant actions. Slacktivism, really. That's our culture. Mass shootings are a byproduct like corporate greed and people just generally only giving a #### about themselves.

And it's not guns, we just saw here in Calgary someone stab 5 people to death.

Korea especially and, in some cases, Germany just don't act like that. So this will continue and keep continuing. Fingers will be pointed at each other, the media will glorify and overreact with indignation, and nothing will change. The next big media story will come along and attract our ADD-riddled attention spans.

I have to say that this is one of the best posts I've read about this. I have to say thanks