Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[StickMan]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

In Canada, the philosophy with immigration seems to be that quantity is the main quality. Bring in as many immigrants as you can and hopefully some of them land in sectors where we need them to. Canada can afford to be a lot more selective and used to be a lot more selective. We complain that certain sectors need to be supplemented with immigrants, but it doesn't seem like the policy has been fixing that issue over the years. Are the majority of the 500k immigrants coming to Canada filling in the gaps where the country needs it, or are they mostly just moving to large centers and hoping they fall into some kind of meaningful employment?

I think this is part of why you don't set "targets" for immigration. Targets prioritize quantity over quality, just let anyone in because we need to reach targets. We should be more strategic and put some thought into this... But liberals and thought don't often go together.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by opendoor

There are lot more industries in the country than construction. The point is, we need to maintain a sustainable ratio between working-age people and retired people, or else the whole thing just breaks down.

Ultimately, current seniors didn't pay near enough into the system to fund the services they expect. When there was a favorable demographic makeup, "pay as you go" made a lot of sense because there were far, far more working age people than retirees, but that's not the case anymore. So things like universal healthcare, CPP, OAS, etc. simply can't work without one of three things happening (or a combo of them):

1) Reduction in services (i.e. OAS cuts, poorer healthcare, etc.);

2) Tax/fee increases (which are an inevitability if you allow the labor force to shrink while expecting them to pay for the same level of services for an aging society); or,

3) Enough immigration to keep the labor force growing at its historical rate of about 1.3% a year. In the current context where there are 2 people retiring for every 1 teenager entering the workforce, that translates to about 500K new permanent residents a year, which is the current government's target.


Of the three, immigration should be by far the most palatable solution, which is why all the major parties seem to agree on it. But that doesn't stop people from blaming immigration for the country's problems and treating it as a partisan issue.

4) Increase OAS to 67.

I know it wasn’t super popular, but it is an option.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by StickMan

Drastically increasing the population without any planning for also increasing housing, healthcare, schools, infrastructure etc. Is the problem. It is the same Liberal thinking as "the budget will balance itself".

Who is in charge of healthcare and schools again?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by StickMan

I think this is part of why you don't set "targets" for immigration. Targets prioritize quantity over quality, just let anyone in because we need to reach targets. We should be more strategic and put some thought into this... But liberals and thought don't often go together.

It's almost like you don't know what you are talking about.


https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration...stem/grid.html

[transplant99]

When the Bank of Canada held its interest rate steady last week it acknowledged the economy was slowing.

But by how much? The public mostly hears headline economic numbers, but when you look through the lens of population growth an even bleaker picture comes into focus.

A recent report by Desjardins argues that the population boom is masking the full extent of Canada’s economic gloom.

“Surging population growth — the highest since the 1950s — has provided a tailwind to headline economic activity since mid-2022,” said Randall Bartlett, Desjardins’ senior director of Canadian Economics.

When measured on a per capita basis, however, real gross domestic product has fallen in each of the past four quarters and growth in domestic demand has fared even worse, he said.

The Bank of Canada’s latest Business Outlook Survey showed investment intentions for companies outside of natural resources sectors were the lowest since 2020.

And “flagging consumer confidence portends a similar fate for household consumption,” he said.

https://financialpost.com/news/canad...box=1694520463

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

It's almost like you don't know what you are talking about.


https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration...stem/grid.html

You linked to the CRS system without context or commentary?

The Express Entry federal high skilled application system (where the CRS score is used for entry draws) accounts for under 100K of the targeted 465K immigration target for 2023. It's a small subset of our immigration target totals.

https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-im...els-plans.html

In that subsection though, the quality of application is kept up.

We have enough of a pool right now to still get similar skilled workers in terms of quality based on CRS scores at this time (last published CRS pool numbers I could find are 2021 so I can't see how the current pool looks like). The number fluctuates and draws are lowered for certain occupations in need at times (we just did one for mechanics and construction workers) but generally we haven't seen a major quality drop. Here's the draw numbers for review. This is where you can see if we do in fact lower quality of applications (and where we could correctly start criticizing the quality of skilled workers). At this point, the claim we are bringing in anybody (if talking of the high skilled worker category) is clearly false as the CRS draws for entry prove otherwise.

https://www.canadavisa.com/express-e...ly-issued.html

The problem lies once you step out of this subsection of immigration applicants.

The provincial nominee program is how your local Tim Hortons franchise gets to fill their minimum wage staff with TFWs and kicking out established tenants to the curb to house them on the cheap to maximize profits. This program has been further expanded to help meet Liberal immigration targets.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/princ...sing-1.6752938

The provincial nominee program and other programs such as for caregivers is effectively the loophole to enter the country with limited skills and no family sponsorship. And we are expanding on them.

I'm all for skilled workers immigrating, support the CRS system methodology and even see the need for TFW in specific areas...but it's misleading to link to that page without comment and pretend we are only bringing high quality skilled workers in the country as our immigration targets are expanding in all areas.

Hopefully this additional info clears up and expands some things for everyone as it's a multi faceted issue.

[Firebot]

https://www.michaelgeist.ca/2023/09/...nt-on-twitter/

Federal Court Approves Consent Order Requiring Minister Steven Guilbeault to Unblock Ezra Levant on Twitter

The order also includes a $20,000 cost award to Levant. Regardless of your views of either Levant or Guilbeault, the principle that government ministers should not block access to their feeds given the implications for freedom of expression is an important one.

While it is both understandable and reasonable for politicians to want to avoid harassment or other inappropriate behaviour online, social media services typically have a “mute” function that would allow them to do so without blocking public access to their feeds. Moreover, given the implications of Bill C-18 and blocked news links, government information may only be available directly from the original source on some services, thereby increasing the importance of unfettered access. Levant says that the government wanted him to sign a confidentiality clause in order to keep the settlement secret. He refused and has thereby opened the door to similar claims against ministers or others speaking on behalf of the government that block users since such an approach is clearly vulnerable to a legal challenge as a likely violation under the Charter.

I bet that 20K isn't coming from Guilbeault's pocket

Good to see our courts defending the charter of rights, to the chagrin of our government officials inappropriately practicing censorship on political and petty grounds. This decision likely will open more cases of politicians being taken to court for censorship (see Smith).

https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/blocked-b...ling-1.6269511

[bizaro86]

I think we should expand the automatic entry for people who US H1B visas. That's a pool of pre-vetted, super high capacity people, many of whom are getting screwed by the US immigration system.

As an example, I have a friend who has a masters in engineering from Stamford. He's worked for large tech companies (ones you've heard of) and startups in Silicon Valley for the last decade. Hugely high capacity person, that would add in-demand skills to the Canadian economy. He makes a good living in Silicon Valley, specializing in battery technology.

Why would someone like that move to Canada? One big reason is he's getting screwed (imo) by the US. H1B is a visa for high demand/skill workers. It qualifies for a green card if your employer will sponsor you, but the number of green cards per year is limited, and nationals for any one country can only get a certain % of the green cards. That means the wait for Indian H1B holders who get approved for a green card is measured in decades. And if you don't get the green card by the time your kids turn 21, they don't qualify for residency any more and have to leave. He immigrated with a toddler who doesn't remember living anywhere else - under the current system she doesn't qualify for US residency and would have to move back to India when she turns 21.

Canada offered a special work permit for H1B holders, and the program reached the 10,000 application cap immediately. That's 10,000 highly educated people with high demand skills who have experience working in the US (which is more transferrable to Canada than from other countries, imo).

I really think we should expand that program. I have ethical concerns about taking all the skilled workers from poor countries (eg if we take all the doctors/nurses from the Philippines what do people there do for health care?) But the Americans are fine, and they aren't treating these people well (imo the fact that it hasn't changed is racially motivated, this only affects Indian nationals and Chinese nationals). And our economy benefits more from taking in high skill STEM immigrants than it does from taking in TFW types to work at the local Tims.

See: https://news.yahoo.com/150-wait-gree...211630028.html

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by Firebot

https://www.michaelgeist.ca/2023/09/...nt-on-twitter/

I bet that 20K isn't coming from Guilbeault's pocket

Good to see our courts defending the charter of rights, to the chagrin of our government officials inappropriately practicing censorship on political and petty grounds. This decision likely will open more cases of politicians being taken to court for censorship (see Smith).

https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/blocked-b...ling-1.6269511

Maybe he could use some of that money he’s been saving by cutting his own hair.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Firebot

https://www.michaelgeist.ca/2023/09/...nt-on-twitter/





I bet that 20K isn't coming from Guilbeault's pocket

Good to see our courts defending the charter of rights, to the chagrin of our government officials inappropriately practicing censorship on political and petty grounds. This decision likely will open more cases of politicians being taken to court for censorship (see Smith).

https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/blocked-b...ling-1.6269511

It was a settlement, so the courts didn't really do anything other than facilitate the process to reach said settlement. Which is good because any ruling like this opens a massive can of worms.

I'm guessing it had more to do with Guilbeault deciding it wasn't worth the headache in the grand scheme of things as opposed to any sense of defeat.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Yamer

It was a settlement, so the courts didn't really do anything other than facilitate the process to reach said settlement. Which is good because any ruling like this opens a massive can of worms.

I'm guessing it had more to do with Guilbeault deciding it wasn't worth the headache in the grand scheme of things as opposed to any sense of defeat.

The real defeat is Ezra getting any money to put towards more racist bigoted attacks on Canadians to divide the country and boost his donations. What a ####ing POS.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

The real defeat is Ezra getting any money to put towards more racist bigoted attacks on Canadians to divide the country and boost his donations. What a ####ing POS.

Your tax dollars hard at work.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Your tax dollars hard at work.

Our tax dollars are getting wasted in all the court cases this ####ing muppet is involved in. Can't we send him to some remote island in the arctic and never hear from him again? That'd be wort the flight costs.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Our tax dollars are getting wasted in all the court cases this ####ing muppet is involved in. Can't we send him to some remote island in the arctic and never hear from him again? That'd be wort the flight costs.

I don’t disagree. Hate when we spend our tax dollars like this.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Our tax dollars are getting wasted in all the court cases this ####ing muppet is involved in. Can't we send him to some remote island in the arctic and never hear from him again? That'd be wort the flight costs.

When he turns 70 that will be part of my plan, yes.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

I think we should expand the automatic entry for people who US H1B visas. That's a pool of pre-vetted, super high capacity people, many of whom are getting screwed by the US immigration system.

As an example, I have a friend who has a masters in engineering from Stamford. He's worked for large tech companies (ones you've heard of) and startups in Silicon Valley for the last decade. Hugely high capacity person, that would add in-demand skills to the Canadian economy. He makes a good living in Silicon Valley, specializing in battery technology.

Why would someone like that move to Canada? One big reason is he's getting screwed (imo) by the US. H1B is a visa for high demand/skill workers. It qualifies for a green card if your employer will sponsor you, but the number of green cards per year is limited, and nationals for any one country can only get a certain % of the green cards. That means the wait for Indian H1B holders who get approved for a green card is measured in decades. And if you don't get the green card by the time your kids turn 21, they don't qualify for residency any more and have to leave. He immigrated with a toddler who doesn't remember living anywhere else - under the current system she doesn't qualify for US residency and would have to move back to India when she turns 21.

Canada offered a special work permit for H1B holders, and the program reached the 10,000 application cap immediately. That's 10,000 highly educated people with high demand skills who have experience working in the US (which is more transferrable to Canada than from other countries, imo).

I really think we should expand that program. I have ethical concerns about taking all the skilled workers from poor countries (eg if we take all the doctors/nurses from the Philippines what do people there do for health care?) But the Americans are fine, and they aren't treating these people well (imo the fact that it hasn't changed is racially motivated, this only affects Indian nationals and Chinese nationals). And our economy benefits more from taking in high skill STEM immigrants than it does from taking in TFW types to work at the local Tims.

See: https://news.yahoo.com/150-wait-gree...211630028.html

While in theory this makes a lot of sense, in practice, we don't have enough jobs for people like this. Maybe I'm cynical, but your friend would probably end up working delivering Uber eats in Toronto while they scramble to find a better situation in another country.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by _Q_

While in theory this makes a lot of sense, in practice, we don't have enough jobs for people like this. Maybe I'm cynical, but your friend would probably end up working delivering Uber eats in Toronto while they scramble to find a better situation in another country.

I don't know the average quality of H1B holders, but the particular person I'm talking about is the engineering version of a rock star. He'd be instantly employable in any major Canadian city. Although probably not for anything near what he's making in Silicon Valley. He did get approached by a headhunter for a job in BC awhile back at a fuel cell company and was asking me about Vancouver. He didn't pursue it because of California weather/money, but I think if his daughter gets to high school age and he doesn't have a green card he might be willing to overlook the $150k less he'd make in Canada.

A lot of people in this boat could probably get Microsoft or Google to transfer them to an office here. And super high capacity, high income young people are a big benefit demographics wide.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by Yamer

It was a settlement, so the courts didn't really do anything other than facilitate the process to reach said settlement. Which is good because any ruling like this opens a massive can of worms.

I'm guessing it had more to do with Guilbeault deciding it wasn't worth the headache in the grand scheme of things as opposed to any sense of defeat.

Guillbault deciding? That's a rather comical take considering he literally just had to unblock Levant from Twitter 2 years ago and instead chose to fight this in court forming a pretty petty defense with multiple court appearances, wasting our court systems time, lawyer time, judge time and taxpayer dollars. It's been in courts for 2 years when a simple unblock would have sufficed. He was told by his lawyers he has zero case and to consent to the order to avoid an embarrassing ruling relating to the charter of rights and likely was pressured to consent.

It's customary to pay 20K in legal cost, fully consent to comply on a court order with removing the block and barring any future block, and embarrassingly request a confidentiality clause on release of the order that was rejected by the applicant, effectively giving the applicant 100% of their demands?

What a colossal waste of time and taxpayer money as a result of a petty government official.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Our tax dollars are getting wasted in all the court cases this ####ing muppet is involved in. Can't we send him to some remote island in the arctic and never hear from him again? That'd be wort the flight costs.

Are you talking of Levant or Gillbault? Considering this legally binding court order and lawsuit could have been avoided in the first place and one where he likely violated the charter of rights as a sitting government official?

As for Levant. Any person can file a lawsuit as long as they pay the fees. And considering that he has won decisions such as this court ordered injunction on the leader's debate, and the recent consent to court order on Guillbault which would have likely come to a decision in favour, it seems his reasons for using the court system are quite validated, regardless of your personal views on him.

Are you taking issues with our court system or our charter of rights?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Are you talking of Levant or Gillbault? Considering this legally binding court order and lawsuit could have been avoided in the first place and one where he likely violated the charter of rights as a sitting government official?

As for Levant. Any person can file a lawsuit as long as they pay the fees. And considering that he has won decisions such as this court ordered injunction on the leader's debate, and the recent consent to court order on Guillbault which would have likely come to a decision in favour, it seems his reasons for using the court system are quite validated, regardless of your personal views on him.

Are you taking issues with our court system or our charter of rights?

No, I have issues with a guy who pretends to be a journalist while fomenting hate for cash. He's a giant POS who has only caused harm to our society, and he is spreading his feces all over the world now. The minute we stop pretending this fetid banana is a journalist, the less power he can pretend to have.