Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote, Formenton charged with sexual assault

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

Anything less than full and complete cooperation with the London Police and Henein Hutchison over the last five and a half years means that Dube is done in the NHL. It is obvious from independent reporting that he refused to hand over his phone when asked to do so repeatedly. I'm as big a Flames fan as anyone, but I'm sorry, cheering for someone who helped to cover up a gang rape is a bridge too far.

Where has it been said he refused to hand over his phone?

[TheIronMaiden]

If Dube is not one of the accused players, the timing of his absence could not be worse.

[Royle9]

Big part of me hopes that Dube's leave is because he feels the stress and shame of being the captain of this team and having this happen and then not saying anything and not actually because he's one of the "5".

Awful all around.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Slava

I think that this is so gross (assuming it happened). Players using the mental health aspect to deal with criminal charges and ramifications is just not the intended use in my opinion.

Pretty predictable that this would happen, weaponizing mental health to someone’s benefit.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Several things can be true at once
- He could be involved
- He could be suffering from poor mental health, including because of that involvement
- As a member of their organization (as he is right now) the Flames are in position to offer support
- They then have to choose if he will be part of the org going forward (either suspended, released, or not signed) AND if they want to continue to offer support for his mental wellness.

Mental support and treatment is offered to convicted criminals. Being accused or guilty of something doesn't prevent that from happening. The question is what else happens and what decisions do the NHL and Flames make from here (if he's involved).

But I don't see this as weaponizing mental health at all.

[Vinny01]

Alex Formention has long been considered a slam dunk to be involved in things heading back to Canada. He hasn’t played in the league for 2 years and the last year he did he scored 18 goals and 32 points as a 22 year old. Certainly 1 of the 5 right there

[Monahammer]

I agree with Jiri, but the only caveat being the comparison to actual mental health crises (i.e. Kylington perhaps) and how the organization should likely endeavor to create separation between crises that are caused by the individual in question's actions vs a disorder or uncontrollable actions happening in that Person's life. IMO the responsibility here lies with how the club handles press releases and public messaging (IF-big if- this is indeed what is happening.)

[kipperiggy]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Several things can be true at once
- He could be involved
- He could be suffering from poor mental health, including because of that involvement
- As a member of their organization (as he is right now) the Flames are in position to offer support
- They then have to choose if he will be part of the org going forward (either suspended, released, or not signed) AND if they want to continue to offer support for his mental wellness.

Mental support and treatment is offered to convicted criminals. Being accused or guilty of something doesn't prevent that from happening. The question is what else happens and what decisions do the NHL and Flames make from here (if he's involved).

But I don't see this as weaponizing mental health at all.

Maybe if they came out first saying he was on personal leave, and then indicated later he was getting treatment for his mental health.

But you have why it's an issue right in your post. Nobody is saying convicted criminals shouldn't have mental health supports. But if he is indeed part of the crime then it shouldn't come out first that he's getting mental health support. It downplays the severity of the situation and the impact on the victim.

Hoping it is just for the guilt he feels as the leader of the team and not actual guilt. Innocent until proven guilty, but I still don't like how this is going.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

I'm 100% speculating possibilities here, but If I wasn't part of it, but knew about it, and said nothing to anyone about it at the time, there certainly could be a lot of regret/remorse about not coming forward that would take a mental toll.

and don't forget, he was the captain which makes it worse for not taking leadership

[Yeah_Baby]

There is likely going to be a lot of murkyness still as the lawsuit that was settled by the victim mentioned 8 players and (to date) only 5 are facing charges.

The role of the other 3 likely lives in grey until trial or even longer.

[MegaErtz]

Pretty obvious that the five players that have been ordered to surrender themselves to police are Dube, Hart, Formenton, McLeod, and Foote. There's ambiguity, but there is also willful ignorance. Let's get real here.

[cam_calderon]

Hmm, it's very plausible, but can we leave it at that for now? We don't know for sure.

[Strange Brew]

Hopefully any remorse and regret that involved individuals feel isn't just kicking in now when some consequences are about to be felt.

It happened over 5 years ago.

[Tbull8]

McLeod and Foote absent from practice today

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by kipperiggy

Maybe if they came out first saying he was on personal leave, and then indicated later he was getting treatment for his mental health.

But you have why it's an issue right in your post. Nobody is saying convicted criminals shouldn't have mental health supports. But if he is indeed part of the crime then it shouldn't come out first that he's getting mental health support. It downplays the severity of the situation and the impact on the victim.

Hoping it is just for the guilt he feels as the leader of the team and not actual guilt. Innocent until proven guilty, but I still don't like how this is going.

Again I don't see it that way.
Several things can be true at the same time:
- He could be suffering from poor mental health and need help.
- What happened to the victim is horrific and those responsible should be held accountable and face the full consequences
- The offenders should be both punished and given mental support.

When someone has something in their life that is looming, and then it starts to actually become reality, and their world starts to crumble around them, the mental health risks are severe. For instance, gambling addicts will take their own lives, when they can finally no longer hide what's been going on to their spouse/family, etc. For instance, when then realities of their debts come to the fore. They could be living under that mask for years, but when it finally hits, that's when the mental health risk is also the highest. So I can imagine that if the players involved knew this was finally all going to come out, that their mental wellness would potentially reach crisis levels.

To be clear my view is:
- There should be severe consequences for anyone proven to be involved. Including the appropriate legal consequences (e.g. jail time) and being thrown out of the NHL
- But that doesn't mean those people shouldn't be offered mental support and treatment.

This stuff simply isn't as binary as we want it to be.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

Pretty obvious that the five players that have been ordered to surrender themselves to police are Dube, Hart, Formenton, McLeod, and Foote. There's ambiguity, but there is also willful ignorance. Let's get real here.

I'm not sure that it's that pretty obvious yet?

Foote and McLeod simply were not at a team event? Is there more to it than that at this stage for them?

[MegaErtz]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I'm not sure that it's that pretty obvious yet?

Foote and McLeod simply were not at a team event? Is there more to it than that at this stage for them?

McLeod is not at practice this morning, and his agent is refusing to comment.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

Pretty obvious that the five players that have been ordered to surrender themselves to police are Dube, Hart, Formenton, McLeod, and Foote. There's ambiguity, but there is also willful ignorance. Let's get real here.

It could be looking that way. Sure. But waiting until the charges are released to know for sure isn't willful ignorance.

Also it's human nature in the absence of knowing to speculate. Speculation also isn't willful ignorance. imo

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I agree with Jiri, but the only caveat being the comparison to actual mental health crises (i.e. Kylington perhaps) and how the organization should likely endeavor to create separation between crises that are caused by the individual in question's actions vs a disorder or uncontrollable actions happening in that Person's life. IMO the responsibility here lies with how the club handles press releases and public messaging (IF-big if- this is indeed what is happening.)

Both are likely actual mental health crises, with the difference indeed being what is the driver of each. Which the Flames have been consistently silent on.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Why aren’t they releasing the names? Sorry but they don’t deserve to be protected at this stage.

Likely because they have not yet been formally charged with an offence.