April 8 2000, last game of Grant Fuhr's career. Look at the crowd in Calgary.

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

and yet here you are. lol

Had to put in my two penny worth.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Buff

Well, yes. Maybe I was a bit backwards in saying that. Back in those days, a young player like Iginla was very cost controlled. RFAs never really struck it big until they reached UFA. No way Johnny and Monny would have received $6M+ contracts on their second contract if they played in the 90s. We have the no good Kevin Lowe and his no good Oilers to thank for that. They started giving out giant contracts to RFAs (offer sheets), and younger players started getting paid bigger money much earlier in their careers.

They started with the 6x6s but I think the rest of the league largely ignored that one. But the handout to Draisaitl really changed the marketplace (they could have gotten away with the McDavid one since he was “generational”).

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by Royal Eagle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eivj...=oilerfanatic1


Half empty building and the only people in it were Oilers fans.

The dark years of the dead puck era, of the young guns era and Flames fandom.

Yup. this was when I became a Flames fan - Flames forever, etc

[nieuwy-89]

The Flames were terribly managed through the 90's and the dismantling of the Stanley Cup team with nothing to show for it within 2-3 seasons is quite astonishing and heartbreaking, even in hindsight.

But it was not just a Calgary thing. As others said, all small market teams were struggling and particularly small market Canadian teams due to the economy and currency value at that time.

Edmonton was the same. My buddies and I would regularly pick up cheap $10 Oilers tickets - I think it was at some bulk warehouse - for the nosebleeds, and then move down to the lower bowl. Did it all the time at Northlands in the mid-late 90s when I was in high-school and University. Weeknight games would regularly have crowds around 7000 people.

It was also uncool to be an Oilers fan here. I was a Flames fan (from early childhood in Calgary) but Edmonton-born buddies were all fans of other random teams - just whoever they chose. In the 90s there were lots of LA Kings, Red Wings, and Devils fans in my circle. Many true Oilers fans hated the team at that time due to Pocklington and all the baggage from the Gretzky trade/sale.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Buff

Well, yes. Maybe I was a bit backwards in saying that. Back in those days, a young player like Iginla was very cost controlled. RFAs never really struck it big until they reached UFA. No way Johnny and Monny would have received $6M+ contracts on their second contract if they played in the 90s. We have the no good Kevin Lowe and his no good Oilers to thank for that. They started giving out giant contracts to RFAs (offer sheets), and younger players started getting paid bigger money much earlier in their careers.

Honestly, despite Burke's aneurysm, what's the problem with paying RFAs? Players get 50% of the hockey related revenue (a little bit different at the time) but the players get their half of the cake and how it's cut is based off of their 'salary'. But it's not like paying Hall 4M, 6M or 10M changed the size of the cake, it just changed how big of a piece the little guys got. And I think it's for the best. Otherwise, imagine instead of Gaudreau and Monahan making ~6.5M, them making ~4M...and Lucic making 10M.

Because the cake size is static, it didn't change how much (on average) the team's were spending, it really only made it that it was (slightly more) merit based rather than age based. And honestly, outside of the Penner and Vanek offersheets (which by design require a team to overpay) the increases were hardly that significant.

Sutter ####ed things up far far worse with the Kiprusoff contract.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Honestly, despite Burke's aneurysm, what's the problem with paying RFAs? Players get 50% of the hockey related revenue (a little bit different at the time) but the players get their half of the cake and how it's cut is based off of their 'salary'. But it's not like paying Hall 4M, 6M or 10M changed the size of the cake, it just changed how big of a piece the little guys got. And I think it's for the best. Otherwise, imagine instead of Gaudreau and Monahan making ~6.5M, them making ~4M...and Lucic making 10M.

Because the cake size is static, it didn't change how much (on average) the team's were spending, it really only made it that it was (slightly more) merit based rather than age based. And honestly, outside of the Penner and Vanek offersheets (which by design require a team to overpay) the increases were hardly that significant.

Sutter ####ed things up far far worse with the Kiprusoff contract.

Well, what you’re arguing for is simply universal UFAs. RFAs have restricted bargaining power, but Edmonton didn’t exercise that power. So sure, you are just rearranging the pie slices (not that Lucic ever commands that salary). But you are making more well rounded teams who can compete based on controlling players they draft and develop. On your analysis, why even have ELCs - just negotiate them all within the cap.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Well, what you’re arguing for is simply universal UFAs.

No, because UFA's are still hugely overpaid compared to their RFA counterparts today and team's retain the rights to those RFAs...

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

No, because UFA's are still hugely overpaid compared to their RFA counterparts today and team's retain the rights to those RFAs...

Right, and the fact they retain rights gives them bargaining power, which they use. If you ignore that power, they are just UFAs. Edmonton did that.

[GirlySports]

I was in University in 1998-1999ish and you could just walk up to the ticketmaster booth in Mac Hall and buy pretty decent Flames tickets on gameday.

[jonesy]

Is that ever disgusting seeing those Oiler fans standing and cheering and generally having a great time in our building. I believe I am legitimately scarred from the experience of the 80's Oilers and Eskimos. It sucked always being the loser.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Right, and the fact they retain rights gives them bargaining power, which they use. If you ignore that power, they are just UFAs. Edmonton did that.

Suter and Parise were making 10M a year already when Hall signed for 6M. The idea that they didn't use his RFA for bargaining power isn't based in reality lol.

But even then, sure okay, so they sign Hall for 5.5M and spend that extra 0.5 on a UFA who doesn't live up to the contract like most UFA signings, big whoop.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Suter and Parise were making 10M a year already when Hall signed for 6M. The idea that they didn't use his RFA for bargaining power isn't based in reality lol.

But even then, sure okay, so they sign Hall for 5.5M and spend that extra 0.5 on a UFA who doesn't live up to the contract like most UFA signings, big whoop.

You are ignoring my point. But if they were “making $10M already” how does Hall’s contract affect them one way or another? Wouldn’t a signing right afterwards be more of an indicator?

Anyway, the fact that a new RFA contracts level caused increases in UFA contracts isn’t much of a leap and not really my point either way. My recollection was just that most teams ignored the 6x6 (remember it was Eberle and RNH as well) for a few years. But Draisaitl’s caused a measurable increase in RFA contracts (aside from Pasternak’s which must have already been in the works). Look at the Nylander situation shortly after.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You are ignoring my point. But if they were “making $10M already” how does Hall’s contract affect them one way or another? Wouldn’t a signing right afterwards be more of an indicator?

I'm pretty much saying it didn't. Sure maybe 0.5 here that would have been spent on whatever aging UFA they spent on anyways that year but nothing remotely of significance. My point was the best players were already making 10M as UFA, so Hall making "only" 6M shows the RFA discount the Oiler's got.

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Anyway, the fact that a new RFA contracts level caused increases in UFA contracts isn’t much of a leap and not really my point either way.

That's literally impossible if we're talking about actual salary. There's no way that an increase in RFA contracts would result in an increase in UFA salaries. Have you never had cake? If you have a nice plan to give everyone a certain size piece of it and then last second decide to give Hall a great big piece instead, you can't turn around and give everyone else a big piece too, there isn't enough cake. Again, players get 50% of HRR, it's a defined number. If RFA's start getting paid more, UFA's get paid less.

Originally Posted by GioforPM

My recollection was just that most teams ignored the 6x6 (remember it was Eberle and RNH as well) for a few years. But Draisaitl’s caused a measurable increase in RFA contracts (aside from Pasternak’s which must have already been in the works). Look at the Nylander situation shortly after.

All of this comes back to Sutter and Kiprusoff's contract. The inflation wasn't from RFA's, it was from retirement contracts that had players like Paris and Suter earning 10M a year until they retire at the age of 106 but because there contract was two centuries long they were able to play games with the cap to reduce it below their salaries. But players don't give two ####s about this imaginary number that fans do, they care about cash and when all the best players are making 10M+ despite what their cap may be, they're going to want that too even if the NHL decides that 200 year old contracts are no longer allowed.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Also keep in mind how much the cap has gone up. It was 39M to start. It's over doubled now. Draisaitl's 11% of the cap when he signed is not unlike Backstrom's 11% of the cap when he signed in 2010. Or Mike Richards signed in 2007. And actually less than what Stastny signed in 2008.

The only thing I would 'credit' the Oilers with doing is helping to reduce the second bridge-type contracts, but that's more about risk/reward and shifting cap than reducing total salary and it seems like those notable players with a bridge contract came back to haunt their teams (aka Subban and his current 9M contract)

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by Matty81

I feel like there was a big crop of fans in calgary during the late 90s who just cheered for the successful teams at the time. The liveliest games were when the trendy teams like the avs and wings came to town and there were loads of bandwagon fans for those games.

People who were 20 plus and had lived the better years were still flames dominant but were a little more low key because of how bad the team was. Not a lot to cheer for or bring them out. And after the finals run the younger groups coming up were again flames centric.

Yeah. I graduated in the early 00s (pre 04), years later I ran into an old classmate from the K-9 days at an Edmonton bar who said he remembered me as being "the biggest Flames fan". That's pretty sad when you're living IN Calgary, and the unique things that stands out about you to someone is you're a big fan of the local team.

I recall as recently as 2003 walking into pubs here during the Flames game and there'd be no sound on, maybe even only on 1 or 2 of the TVs in there, and barely anybody in there was even paying attention. Dark days, man..

Can't say enough what Daryl Sutter & that 04 team did for turning it around here. Sutter made it cool to be a Flames fan again, I'll always love him for that.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I'm pretty much saying it didn't. Sure maybe 0.5 here that would have been spent on whatever aging UFA they spent on anyways that year but nothing remotely of significance. My point was the best players were already making 10M as UFA, so Hall making "only" 6M shows the RFA discount the Oiler's got.

It was the highest RFA contract at the time, no?

That's literally impossible if we're talking about actual salary. There's no way that an increase in RFA contracts would result in an increase in UFA salaries. Have you never had cake? If you have a nice plan to give everyone a certain size piece of it and then last second decide to give Hall a great big piece instead, you can't turn around and give everyone else a big piece too, there isn't enough cake. Again, players get 50% of HRR, it's a defined number. If RFA's start getting paid more, UFA's get paid less.

No, what happened was high end UFA salaries went up to compete with RFA salaries, and journeymen got squeezed out. UFA’s don’t care about the team cap nor middling ability teammates. And the Oilers didn’t have to worry about their pending UFAs because they didn’t have anyone good. But across the league you had pending UFAs saying “look what Eberle got”

All of this comes back to Sutter and Kiprusoff's contract. The inflation wasn't from RFA's, it was from retirement contracts that had players like Paris and Suter earning 10M a year until they retire at the age of 106 but because there contract was two centuries long they were able to play games with the cap to reduce it below their salaries. But players don't give two ####s about this imaginary number that fans do, they care about cash and when all the best players are making 10M+ despite what their cap may be, they're going to want that too even if the NHL decides that 200 year old contracts are no longer allowed.

Inflation can come fro more than one place.

[FireGilbert]

The sad part is this wasn’t even the nadir of the young guns era. That came a season later when Button then Gilbert came to town and St. Louis and Giguere were lost for nothing.

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Bettman gets crapped on way too much by Canadian fans who have no clue how much he did to keep the game going up here.

Also it should not be forgotten that our own Harley Hotchkiss, along with Bettman, played a huge part in changing the league over to a salary cap system, which essentially saved many of the Canadian teams.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

Also it should not be forgotten that our own Harley Hotchkiss, along with Bettman, played a huge part in changing the league over to a salary cap system, which essentially saved many of the Canadian teams.

Of course, people remember Hotchkiss fondly, and criticize present ownership as cheap but Harley liked to save a buck as much as anyone.

[nik-]

The best thing about this era was that the Dome still sold Beer Nuts.