GMs to discuss size of goalie equipment

[jaydub74]

Originally Posted by Diemenz

I started playing hockey in the 80's. There was no were near enough padding for me to get in front of a Atom players shot back then. When I was playing in college I always jumped in front of pucks, if you faced the shot the only scary place to take the puck was your stomach or neck.

That's also true. Player equipment has improved substantially allowing players to feel a lot safer when it comes to shot blocking.

I don't think that changes the fact that if the NHL wants to increase goal scoring without changing the net size, they should look at potentially reducing the way players are blocking shots. No laying on the ice.

[t0rrent98]

I don't see how having taller goalie pads like Luongo's would be a problem. There's enough skilled young players out there drafted and soon to be drafted that are fairly skilled and would know where to shoot even if the goalie covers up the 5 hole.

Having larger pads to cover the 5 hole is BS, IMO, it provides protects most and all your legs from constantly hard shots... Yes, you could probably argue that the goalie pants should have more padding, but it may obstruct the movements of the goalie as it would provide a heavier load. Kids nowadays are growing at a rapid rate and the same can be said about their shot power.

I am all for increased goal scoring, but like I said, there's enough skilled young players out there that would know where to shoot.

I play goalie myself,I'm 6" tall and have reebok pads that are 34"+1 and sometimes get bruises when I get a slapshot to the thigh, it's not a pleasant feeling even if the pants stopped most of it.

[Eric Vail]

I thought this thread was going to be ten years old when I saw it.

None of these issues are new. The NHL never does anything significant to address their problems.

I'd be happy with a bigger net, because they are too gutless to reduce or change a goalie's equipment to a reasonable state. They won't do that either.

[zunie75]

Originally Posted by Eric Vail

I thought this thread was going to be ten years old when I saw it.

None of these issues are new. The NHL never does anything significant to address their problems.

I'd be happy with a bigger net, because they are too gutless to reduce or change a goalie's equipment to a reasonable state. They won't do that either.

Changing the net changes the game to much. While I think the general consensus is that equipment could do with a change, but because it evolves every year its something we can live with.

If you make the nets bigger, then any numbers any scorer puts up should have an asterisk beside their name in the record books.

Making the nets larger is as stupid as making the basketball nets larger or the back board larger, or the uprights in football larger. I think certain things need to remain true to the origins of the game.

[vilzeh]

I don't care about this, but for the love of god: DO NOT CHANGE THE NET SIZE.

[Kidder]

Originally Posted by blankall

No. It's not like other sports.

Other sports have very strict rules on equipment that constantly keep up and change with technology. A boxer isn't allowed to use whatever gloves he chooses, a baseball player can't use a corked or aluminium bat, the size of their glove is strictly controlled, etc... this isn't a case of a slightly better running shoe.

That's a good point, there are sports where equipment change is minimal. I was thinking more along the lines of tennis, golf, lacrosse, etc... sports that constantly upgrade their technology.

But I'm confused by the next part. Hockey does have limitations on goaltending equipment. Maybe not to the specifics that would satisfy goal adorers, but they're there.

Basketball recently banned a shoe that increased vertical leap on average by 3.5 inches. Football eventually barred the use of sticky adhesive on gloves. Baseball limited the amount of tar allowed on a bat. Even swimming eventually banned performance enhancing material from their swimwear.

Goaltenders too have pushed the barriers wherever possible until the NHL said no mas. All gear is limited in its size relative to the goaltender. There is a maximum length and width on pads. Webbing and other foreign materials have been banned. Ditto with extra baggy jerseys.

Actually fascinating, that on his re-entry into the NHL, Danny Taylor had to change his skates, as his current model of skates are deemed illegal by NHL standards.

http://ingoalmag.com/news/danny-tayl...come-with-him/

Maybe helps to explain some of his early troubles in game one...

Perhaps you're saying the pace and aggressiveness in which the NHL is regulating goalie equipment doesn't compare to other sports?

But I would suggest every athlete is looking for whatever advantage they can garner from their equipment (or their personal trainers/pharmacists) until restricted by those with the authority.

Goalies have just been adept at finding new ways to grab an upper hand until the NHL is forced to crack down.

Hey, if you're not cheating, you're not trying.

[GrrlGoalie33]

Originally Posted by sketchyt

Haha, yeah maybe not those. I was more talking about the width of them. I've seen some pretty wide ones.

I suppose one way you could manufacture scoring off goalies would be to somehow change the face of the pads. Speaking in generalities, a lot of pads are flat faced, very stiff and rocket rebounds safely to non-danger areas (i.e. Luongo, Rinne...). Others wear pads that are softer but made to leave safe/predictable rebounds in front of goalies that are quick to cover (i.e. Kipper, Quick).

Don't know how you would do it or even standardize it, but maybe they could limit the type of materials used in pads so that rebounds are less predictable for the goaltender. Or perhaps change the face of the pad like reducing the shape of the outer roll.

If you kept the same high density materials, but mandated that the floaters had to be round instead of square, that would certainly throw some unpredictable rebounds!

[Stillman16]

I think the problem might be that the pads are allowed to be PROPORTIONAL to the goalie. This gives the bigger goalies a advantage over smaller goalies.

I think everyone will agree that the goaltenders have more than enough protection, so perhaps instead of limits to each piece of equipment, each goalie has a limit to the combined area the equipment covers overall, and then is allowed to allocate the coverage as he needs.

This would even the playing field for all goalies, regardless of size. Say each goalie can cover only 2/3 of the net area (face on) or 16 ftsq. He can then choose how to allocate it--ie. 6'2" goalie--leg pads 36" high, 12" wide-6 ftsq, thigh to neck 24" wide, 26" high-4.33 ftsq, arms (x2) 8" wide, 30" long-3.33 sqft, head 12" high, 8" wide-0.66 sqft, leaving 1.67 sqft for trapper and blocker (about 10" sq each-small, but could reduce leg pads to gain here).

So if you're a bigger goalie, you have to sacrifice the size of your cheaters on the trapper and blocker, or use narrower legpads.....otherwise, why not just take a sumo wrestler, put PROPORTIONAL pads on him, and wedge him in the net?

[GrrlGoalie33]

Is goalie equipment too big? maybe, but not by much. When you look at these guys in their butterfly, there isn't much of a gap between their knees, so you can't really take much off the height of the pads. As someone mentioned earlier in this thread, pants are not meant to take the constant abuse pads are, so goalies don't want to give up height on the pads.

Glove and blocker are WAY smaller than they were in the 90's. Blockers can't really lose much in size, but we can probably lose some in the cheater area of the catcher. The surface area of the glove itself isn't that much different than a fielders glove in baseball.

The Chest&Arms can probably lose some on the top/outside of the shoulder floaters, but again not much. Elbow floaters protect an extremely vulnerable area and shouldn't be touched in size - maybe shape, but not size.

Pucks hurt a lot more than they used to. It doesn't matter what level you are playing at. I play Tier 2&3 women's hockey, and I feel the puck way more than I did 10 years ago - sticks are making that much of a difference.

I play with pads that are smaller than most, because I feel pads any bigger inhibit my play. Same with glove/blocker, I play with Intermediate (teenage) sized gear because I feel the sacrifice in size is worth the gain in mobility. I moved from a Intermediate chest/arms to a senior small because the protection it offers is that much better.

Pro goalies these days are just that much better at their jobs. They employ coaches over the summer to work with them. The teams have full time goalie coaches on staff. Players are bigger, stronger and athletic in ways they never have been before. They - just like their sport has evolved in an incredible way!

[Itse]

I agree with the notion that in the end we are talking about smallish changes. That only means that it's not a huge deal, but it doesn't mean that it should not be done.

I also agree that the best goalies will always adapt and be on a class of their own. However, I think we could do better in that department.

One thing that I would be for is curving the leg pads. Right now they form a nice clean wall that are perfect for controlling the rebounds. Curve them around the legs (which my logic should actually protect the legs as well or even better than they do now), and the rebounds become harder to control. They might also just change direction to higher parts of the net instead of bouncing right back.

NHL hockey is a game of very small margins. Little things like this could IMO serve to really make the best to standout from the very good.

One downside that comes to mind with making the equipment smaller would propably increase the meaning of screening the goalies, which I think would make for more boring hockey.

[Otto29]

Originally Posted by Matty81

I'm all for getting rid of the marshmellow men, but if they're going to reduce the goalie equipment size, get rid of the composite sticks too in the name of fairness.

Those sticks are an absolute joke at the pro level. It's the equivalent of baseball allowing metal bats (or something that the ball bounces even harder off of).

The current NHL administration, between the shootout, all the expansion and the constant rule changes has no respect for the history of the game. They'd do anything for a couple more bucks. In ten years the players will be carrying around puck guns or something.

It's like allowing corked bats in MLB. The NHL has to go back to equipment that forces the players to not have any great advantage. Put Luongo in pads from 30 years ago and he wouldn't be nearly as "good"

[Itse]

Originally Posted by zunie75

If the size reduction causes current goalies to be giving up a lot more goals, then coaches are going to switch from offensive hockey to boring defense styles.

I'm pretty sure that the opposite would happen. If you look at the ease of scoring in sports, I think it's clear that easier it is, the LESS important defensive strategies become.

Soccer is propably the lowest scoring sport, and in soccer a team having 5 players that never take part in attacks and only 1 true forward is by no means rare. Hockey has 2 defenseman out of five, and all players need to play a two-way game to at least some extent. In basketball you'll do just fine by sending out the guys with highest personal point totals.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

If they ever change the size of nets I will be very tempted to not watch the NHL again.

How come? Are you worried it will make all previous records invalid? The increase in the size of goalies and their equipment already makes any comparison of stats from decade to decade meaningless.

I support a 10% increase in the size of the nets. Goalie equipment won't decrease significantly because of safety issues.

[zunie75]

Originally Posted by Fire

How come? Are you worried it will make all previous records invalid? The increase in the size of goalies and their equipment already makes any comparison of stats from decade to decade meaningless.

I support a 10% increase in the size of the nets. Goalie equipment won't decrease significantly because of safety issues.

Changing the nets changes to much. These goalies have worked years to do what they do. Forcing them to have to learn all new angles etc is pretty unfair.

Its like telling skaters that they have to abandon the way they shoot for a new way.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Kidder

That's a good point, there are sports where equipment change is minimal. I was thinking more along the lines of tennis, golf, lacrosse, etc... sports that constantly upgrade their technology.

But I'm confused by the next part. Hockey does have limitations on goaltending equipment. Maybe not to the specifics that would satisfy goal adorers, but they're there.

Basketball recently banned a shoe that increased vertical leap on average by 3.5 inches. Football eventually barred the use of sticky adhesive on gloves. Baseball limited the amount of tar allowed on a bat. Even swimming eventually banned performance enhancing material from their swimwear.

Goaltenders too have pushed the barriers wherever possible until the NHL said no mas. All gear is limited in its size relative to the goaltender. There is a maximum length and width on pads. Webbing and other foreign materials have been banned. Ditto with extra baggy jerseys.

Actually fascinating, that on his re-entry into the NHL, Danny Taylor had to change his skates, as his current model of skates are deemed illegal by NHL standards.

http://ingoalmag.com/news/danny-tayl...come-with-him/

Maybe helps to explain some of his early troubles in game one...

Perhaps you're saying the pace and aggressiveness in which the NHL is regulating goalie equipment doesn't compare to other sports?

But I would suggest every athlete is looking for whatever advantage they can garner from their equipment (or their personal trainers/pharmacists) until restricted by those with the authority.

Goalies have just been adept at finding new ways to grab an upper hand until the NHL is forced to crack down.

Hey, if you're not cheating, you're not trying.

I'm not saying that the NHL isn't putting any regulations in, obviously you can't walk in with 10 foot wide chest protector. I'm saying, that compared to other major sports, the NHL is far far behind. Like I said before, it's not just the goalie equipment that needs further regulation, it's the player equipment.

The baffling part is there seems to be constant discussion on the issue. The players, commentators, owners, etc... all seem to agree that the hardness of pads or the size of goalie equipment needs to be more closely regulated, but then absolutely nothing ever seems to happen.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by zunie75

Changing the nets changes to much. These goalies have worked years to do what they do. Forcing them to have to learn all new angles etc is pretty unfair.

Its like telling skaters that they have to abandon the way they shoot for a new way.

It would be a pain for sure, because basically every rink in NA would have to be modified to handle the new size nets if they want to copy the NHL. It's a major change but I think it's for the benefit of the came long term. Goalies are only going to get bigger.

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by Fire

Goalies are only going to get bigger.

Not necessarily true. I think after the initial success of Rinne and some partial successes like Lindback, Dubnyk, etc... it has gone back to mobility. If it were just about size, Henrik Karlsson would be right up there. Unfortunately, he couldn't move. It's very, very rare to find those 6'4-6'6 goalies who move smoothly. Also, all players have gotten bigger.

These goalies nowadays are so gifted athletically that increasing the net size by a few inches wouldn't really impact scoring to a significant level. They'll just adapt. To do it, you would have to make a radical increase in the size of nets... which would come at a cost of losing the Jonathan Quick's of the league.

I just don't know what's so wrong with the game that sweeping changes always have to be made. Games are exciting, goals scored are in line with historical averages and the Oilers are still terrible. What's so wrong with those things?

I'd rather watch a game like the 2-1 loss to Chicago than fire drill Oilers turnover-city hockey any day.

[GreenLantern2814]

The pads, IMO are fine; they aren't exorbitantly oversized like they were in the late nineties early 2000s.

The thing that's gotta change is the chest pads. There's absolutely no reason chest pads can't be more form fitted and smaller without sacrificing protection, even with the velocity that comes with the new age sticks.

As long as they can look like umpires from the seventies up top, the size of leg pads is going to be almost inconsequential.

[zunie75]

Originally Posted by Fire

It would be a pain for sure, because basically every rink in NA would have to be modified to handle the new size nets if they want to copy the NHL. It's a major change but I think it's for the benefit of the came long term. Goalies are only going to get bigger.

I guess there's a lot of possible solutions. I think the one that would work best would be a decrease in the number of teams, leading to a less depleted talent pool.

Each team would have more skilled players to choose from basically. Its a pipe dream I suppose.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

The pads, IMO are fine; they aren't exorbitantly oversized like they were in the late nineties early 2000s.

The thing that's gotta change is the chest pads. There's absolutely no reason chest pads can't be more form fitted and smaller without sacrificing protection, even with the velocity that comes with the new age sticks.

As long as they can look like umpires from the seventies up top, the size of leg pads is going to be almost inconsequential.

Either goalies have started taking a huge number of shots directly to the top of their trapezius and sides of their arms, or equipment is being designed specfically to take up space in the net and not for protection.