Lines when Colborne/Backs/Raymond are all back

[Cali Panthers Fan]

This is an interesting debate, and one that would not have happened if so many kids did not look ready for the NHL on a full time basis. I don't think you see certain moves made in the off-season if management had been as familiar with the prospect base. Treliving said he was honestly surprised at the quality and depth we had throughout the organization. I will post a potential lineup, but I need to make a few comments first.

1) The Failed Setoguchi Experiment: I think we need to move on from this one. It didn't really cost us anything so far. Setoguchi has been a warm decent sized body at a weaker position for a low salary. However, he has added almost nothing to this team. His work ethic has improved from training camp, but very little else has. He doesn't handle the puck well, makes questionable decisions, and is probably one of the poorest skaters amongst the forwards. 0 points in 10 games despite adequate and undeserved time on the power play. A team worst -7 despite easier match ups and limited minutes. I feel bad for the kid, but it's just not working out and he drags his line mates down too. He needs to be waived. Oh, and don't worry, if for some reason we get a lot of injuries again and need warm bodies to fill out a lineup he can be recalled. Nobody is going to claim him.

2) Stajan's Injury: He's listed as 6 weeks (from date of injury) but it's more like 2 months. Don't even worry about his spot in the lineup for a while because I'm sure we'll need him when another forward gets banged up. He will also take some time to get back in game shape, so you won't see him getting significant minutes or a regular spot in the lineup until about the 10 week mark. Knee injuries are easily the worst for a hockey player to recover from. I'm not going to even post him in my lineup because he won't factor in for so long.

3) The Facepuncher Problem: Obviously the league has changed a lot over the last couple of seasons. There really isn't much of a role for McGrattan anymore, which is unfortunate because of how well liked he is in the dressing room. Bollig has a role, but only if he starts playing better. Besides, they aren't going to drop Bollig since they just paid a 3rd round pick for him. McGrattan is on an expiring contract and probably won't be re-signed. I don't think you can have 2 tough guys on this roster at the same time, since it's hard enough to justify putting just 1 in the lineup as is. IMHO, McGrattan is put on waivers when everyone is healthy. It sucks, but it's the best thing for this team long term.

4) The Kids Are Alright: I don't know how you can send some of them back. Jooris isn't going anywhere for sure…he seems to be a spark plug in this lineup and is very strong defensively. Granlund was ready last year, but had an injury derail his season. I'm not sure he's a full time center, but he hasn't looked out of place and quietly takes care of his own end. Plus, Granlund is one of the few players on the team that can really shoot the puck and bury his chances. Baertschi was not great at first, but it looks like he's figured out how to play in order to stay up. He's been exceptional the last 2 games, but I would like a larger sample size before I say he's a permanent fixture. Here's the problem with Baertschi, if you send him down he's likely not going to respond well to it, as he hasn't responded well to a demotion yet. I think if he plays at this level for the next 5-7 games you have to keep him up. It's time to make room for Sven. Ferland probably deserves to be here, but it wouldn't hurt to send him back down until a roster spot opens up. I think he will eventually replace Bollig's role, but with a heck of a lot more skill. Reinhart isn't a bad player, but he isn't better than anyone returning, so he'll have to go back for sure.

5) Time To Make A Trade: We saw glimpses of the young emerging talent last season but it was prudent to wait and see if it was reproducible. We also had Jooris come out of nowhere to force himself into the picture. Too many left wingers and guys playing on their off-wing. We simply need a right winger to balance out the roster. We could also use a 4-6 level defenseman to help solidify the defense. That being said, Hudler and Colborne have been serviceable on their off-wing, as has Byron of late. I just don't know who to trade besides Glencross, but I hesitate to do that because he still adds a lot of veteran tools to help the team. I think both Glencross and Stajan will be gone by the end of the year, just a hunch. I also think McGrattan might get traded to a team that needs a tough guy.


Gaudreau-Monahan-Colborne
Baertschi-Granlund-Hudler
Raymond-Backlund-Jones
Bouma-Jooris-Byron

Traded: Glencross

Extra: Bollig, McGrattan?

Waived: Setoguchi
Returned to AHL: Ferland, Reinhart

Roll all four lines regularly. There's very little separation between the lines in terms of skill, just different strengths and weakness to matchup to the opposition with.

[waner]

Like others have said I doubt all forwards are healthy for the rest of the season but if they were what I would like to see (not what I expect to see):

Glencross-Monahan-Colborne
Raymond-Backlund-Hudler
Baertschi-Jooris-Gaudreau
Bollig-Stajan-Bouma

PB: Byron and Jones

Setoguchi and/or McGrattan can be waived and either sent home or to Adirondack when they clear.

I haven't been as impressed with Granlund as others and certainly not as a center so I would have him back in the AHL likely as the first call up for forwards.

[GioforPM]

With McGrattan you may want to wait until a team without tough guys is dominated physically on night and then work a trade, rather than just waive.

Same with Seto, except maybe a playoff bubble team with significant inuries that just needs some NHL experienced warm bodies.

Stajan isn't back any time soon, not I fear is Backlund (the silence on him is pretty telling).

Ferland can be sent down on conditioning.

[Stay Golden]

Byron and Jones will not be in the conversation to be sent down. These 3 will get bumped down to the AHL.
Even though they have all recently played well.
Reinhart
Sven
Granlund
Setoguchi and Grats should be put on waivers and sent down if they clear. I doubt if the Flames go that route though.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

Gaudreau-Monahan-Colborne
Baertschi-Granlund-Hudler
Raymond-Backlund-Jones
Bouma-Jooris-Byron

Traded: Glencross

Extra: Bollig, McGrattan?

Waived: Setoguchi
Returned to AHL: Ferland, Reinhart

Roll all four lines regularly. There's very little separation between the lines in terms of skill, just different strengths and weakness to matchup to the opposition with.

Your lineup is what I like. I think teams would be scared of us since any of those lines can be the top line. It'll depend on who is playing better that game.

[ben voyonsdonc]

I don't really see a place for McGrattan on the team but I can't imagine seeing him not on the team. He has been such a positive teammate and has been a mentor (BFF?) for Monahan that I would like to keep him on the team in some capacity.

[442scotty]

Gaudreau-Monahan-Colborne
Baertschi-Granlund-Hudler
Raymond-Backlund-Jones
Bouma-Jooris-Byron

Traded: Glencross

Extra: Bollig, McGrattan?

Waived: Setoguchi
Returned to AHL: Ferland, Reinhart

Roll all four lines regularly. There's very little separation between the lines in terms of skill, just different strengths and weakness to matchup to the opposition with.[/QUOTE]


I agree with everything except Jones. Take Jones out and insert Ferland who will probably show he belongs. Waive or trade Jones.

This is going to be a real problem next year with Bennett coming in and others who will be NHL ready! Yikes!!!

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

Gaudreau-Monahan-Colborne
Baertschi-Granlund-Hudler
Raymond-Backlund-Jones
Bouma-Jooris-Byron

Traded: Glencross

Extra: Bollig, McGrattan?

Waived: Setoguchi
Returned to AHL: Ferland, Reinhart

Roll all four lines regularly. There's very little separation between the lines in terms of skill, just different strengths and weakness to matchup to the opposition with.

I agree with your analysis, but I don't think we can propose a line-up assuming a Glencross trade. It would be very unlikey for it to happen (NTC) and even if it did, I would think it would happen closer to the deadline. As such, I think Baertschi would go back to the AHL, given your other choices.

[442scotty]

I haven't been as impressed with Granlund as others and certainly not as a center so I would have him back in the AHL likely as the first call up for forwards.[/QUOTE]


I agree. Granlund is just ok .

If Sven keeps it up then I think he should stay and Granlund go down.

Some of these young guys that are up will be passed by other young guys on the way ! Poirier for one will need a spot. Arnold, surprisingly enough, is making a case for himself. Unless Granlund gets a whole lot better soon he will be passed.

And as for Reinhart... he has been passed by several others and for all intents and purposes, is done.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

I agree with your analysis, but I don't think we can propose a line-up assuming a Glencross trade. It would be very unlikey for it to happen (NTC) and even if it did, I would think it would happen closer to the deadline. As such, I think Baertschi would go back to the AHL, given your other choices.

Yeah, I totally agree, but I think Sven's at the point where you have to make room for him or trade him. Sending him down anymore isn't going to help him. He can play in the NHL (I'm pretty sure anyway), so I think you have to look at moving someone out. The LW is so crowded and Glencross is an UFA this year, so it only makes sense. The only problem? His NTC.

[Monahan23]

Gaudreau - Monahan - Colborne
Glencross - Backlund - Hudler
Byron - Jooris - Raymond
Bouma - Stajan - Jones

McGrattan, Bollig

[CKPThunder]

What is Poirier's status this year? Does his contract slide this year if he plays less than 9 games in the NHL?

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by CKPThunder

What is Poirier's status this year? Does his contract slide this year if he plays less than 9 games in the NHL?

That rule only applies to junior eligibles. Poirier can move at will.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by 442scotty

I haven't been as impressed with Granlund as others and certainly not as a center so I would have him back in the AHL likely as the first call up for forwards.

I agree. Granlund is just ok .

If Sven keeps it up then I think he should stay and Granlund go down.

Some of these young guys that are up will be passed by other young guys on the way ! Poirier for one will need a spot. Arnold, surprisingly enough, is making a case for himself. Unless Granlund gets a whole lot better soon he will be passed.

And as for Reinhart... he has been passed by several others and for all intents and purposes, is done.[/QUOTE]

I think you both are missing the subtle things Granlund does. He's the best defensively out of all the call ups IMO. I don't think I've seen him out of position. And while Sven had a good game last Saturday, mainly in the first period, I think Granlund had a better 60 minutes. Big ice time, 2 quality points, good solid defensive play, and 53% in faceoffs.

[CKPThunder]

I always thought, and correct me if I am wrong, that Poirier was a special case. Burke signed Poirier before Jan 1 last year which I thought allowed Poirier's contract to slide this year. If this is the case, wouldn't his contract slide if he played less than 10 games in the NHL this year?

I realize that Poirier can move at will but I was thinking that if his contract status is such that it would slide into next year then maybe the Flames are going to be a bit more cautious in terms of bringing him up unless absolutely necessary.

If his contract doesn't slide, then please disregard my rabble.

[waner]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I think you both are missing the subtle things Granlund does. He's the best defensively out of all the call ups IMO. I don't think I've seen him out of position. And while Sven had a good game last Saturday, mainly in the first period, I think Granlund had a better 60 minutes. Big ice time, 2 quality points, good solid defensive play, and 53% in faceoffs.

I must be because I don't see much impressive about Granlund defensive play at all and see him outmuscled way too often for my liking.

Hs penalty against Staal the other was 100% him not being strong enough to defend him. Now Staal is one of the biggest and best (at times) so maybe not a lot to be ashamed of for not being to keep up with him but combined with Granlunds play last year and so far this year he looks to physically weak to be an effective center in the league especially with his poor FO ability.

[Imported_Aussie]

It is a tough exercise - especially speculating on the fitness of all the players.

Oh the callup guys, Jooris just keeps showing more reasons each game that he has to stick. I agree with CaliFlamesFan on Baertschi - he is starting to show more, and needs a good extended run to prove himself (or be traded). Granlund goes down IMO once all the centres are fit, but he too is making a case. Reinhart goes down, Setoguchi is waived, and Ferland, unless he gets in a few amazing games, goes down to keep his minutes up.

That still leaves 15 forwards, and barring a continuous injury situation, something has to give.

Looking at the depth chart/long term roles and at value, IMO it has to be one of Glencross or Baertschi traded. LW is overstocked, Centre looks solid (depth always needed) but RW and RD are weak.


My hope - the team keeps rolling, despite having at least 1 guy injured up to the trade deadline, Glencross gets on a roll, and then once the deadline passes and the team can carry more skaters, they can have killer depth and be ready for the stretch run

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by waner

I must be because I don't see much impressive about Granlund defensive play at all and see him outmuscled way too often for my liking.

Hs penalty against Staal the other was 100% him not being strong enough to defend him. Now Staal is one of the biggest and best (at times) so maybe not a lot to be ashamed of for not being to keep up with him but combined with Granlunds play last year and so far this year he looks to physically weak to be an effective center in the league especially with his poor FO ability.

Like you said, lots of guys have trouble outmuscling Staal. But the consensus on Granlund is that he's just defensively very sound. Patr of the danger I keep seeing on proposed lineups is a sacrifice of defence. I know Poirier is supposed to be pretty good defensively too, and so is Bennett, but frankly I doubt they are coming up this year. No reason to rush them in favour of NHLers, which the present crew all are by now..

Granlund's FO is over 50% in the last two games. But I don't know that you'd keep him at centre on a checking line, anyway, when Backlund returns.


ETA: There's a reason he's on the PK

[HartAttack]

Guys . . .. . . ... This isn't really a topic that needs such heated debate. As an earlier poster pointed out, the team is always going to have injuries. Aside from that, and in the odd chance everyone is healthy, you can have a couple swing guys who are in and out of the lineup. Not dissimilar to what they're doing in net with the 1A/1B tandem this year.

This is a good problem to have.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by HartAttack

Guys . . .. . . ... This isn't really a topic that needs such heated debate. As an earlier poster pointed out, the team is always going to have injuries. Aside from that, and in the odd chance everyone is healthy, you can have a couple swing guys who are in and out of the lineup. Not dissimilar to what they're doing in net with the 1A/1B tandem this year.

This is a good problem to have.

I don't think this is a heated debate. Just different views on potential lineups and the odd difference of opinion on particular players. No one denies that this is the best position the Flames have been in as far as depth in years. Even in the time just after the 04 Cup run there wasn't depth like this. And even in '89, the farm wasn't that well stocked (we just had an awesome team with few injuries).