Israel declares war on Hamas

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

I agree that not all protesters are Hamas supporters, I never said that they were. But they he Hamas supporters amongst them are #######s.

We agree on the latter. I think the problem is the view of the person who wrote the opinion column as it makes zero distinction.

Similar to the rise of antisemitism, there is a concentrated push (it’s been this way since the beginning, but more so since Israel has lost public support) to paint anything pro-Palestinian as indistinguishable from pro-Hamas. What people are trying to do is what we’ve seen from the beginning, which is dehumanize Palestinians, further isolate and marginalize them, and make it so that their deaths mean next to nothing to people. It’s ironic that bigots like Cliff and Azure bring up Nazi Germany, as they play into the same tactics to dehumanize and demonize innocent Palestinians. It’s no surprise that Nentenyahu played the exact same card, and I’m not sure I would proudly repeat the very same things a former Hamas-supporter who is hell bent on staying in power regardless of how many people he has to kill has said.

[CliffFletcher]

If some nazis participated in a right-wing protest, would people be so quick to offer the ‘few bad apples’ excuse? Or would they say (rightly) that anyone at that protest who didn’t want to be associated with nazis should step up and denounce them?

[Doctorfever]

As with most things, it is a few bad apples.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1776754750077506030

https://twitter.com/alanfryermedia/s...54750077506030

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

https://torontosun.com/opinion/colum...-yay-for-hamas



A handful of the Hamas supporters in the US. They aren’t exactly the finest members of society, just spoiled rich kids. I don’t think anyone on this board would want to be associated with what they stand for.

Well, except maybe Q, he is the only one on this board that I know of who believes Hamas should maintain power in Gaza.

Wtf????

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

As with most things, it is a few bad apples.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1776754750077506030

https://twitter.com/alanfryermedia/s...54750077506030

That guys is a creepy loser.

Still that guy being a creepy loser doesn't justify continuing to bomb Palestine into dust.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

If some nazis participated in a right-wing protest, would people be so quick to offer the ‘few bad apples’ excuse? Or would they say (rightly) that anyone at that protest who didn’t want to be associated with nazis should step up and denounce them?

I would expect pro-Palestinian protestors to denounce pro-Hamas individuals (as we are), just as I would expect pro-Israeli protestors to denounce individuals like the person who told a Palestinian woman she deserved to be raped.

Out of curiosity, if you were in a conversation where someone told someone else they should die for their views, would you denounce it? Or would you mock the person who was told to die and call them a whiner?

Just kidding, I know the answer.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

If some nazis participated in a right-wing protest, would people be so quick to offer the ‘few bad apples’ excuse? Or would they say (rightly) that anyone at that protest who didn’t want to be associated with nazis should step up and denounce them?

I'm old enough to remember when the Nazi symbols showed up at the trucker protests and how lots here, in the government and in the media went off the rails because of it.

But suicide vests aren't really a bad thing, amirite? They're really not even actually saying that they actually want to actually you know kill people? Not quite at least.

They don't even support Hamas! Just ask Zary!

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Azure

I'm old enough to remember when the Nazi symbols showed up at the trucker protests and how lots here, in the government and in the media went off the rails because of it.

But suicide vests aren't really a bad thing, amirite? They're really not even actually saying that they actually want to actually you know kill people? Not quite at least.

They don't even support Hamas! Just ask Zary!

I’m old enough to remember when Cliff shared a far-right article dismissing the more nefarious elements of the convoy protests as fantasy.

I’m old enough to remember when you dismissed those same elements and talked about the extreme importance of our right to protest in regards to the convoy and anti-COVID protests, in between your critique of pro-Palestine and BLM protests.

We’re all old enough to remember lots of stuff. Which tapes do we want to roll? I’ve got ‘em ready.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Azure

I'm old enough to remember when the Nazi symbols showed up at the trucker protests and how lots here, in the government and in the media went off the rails because of it.

But suicide vests aren't really a bad thing, amirite? They're really not even actually saying that they actually want to actually you know kill people? Not quite at least.

They don't even support Hamas! Just ask Zary!

Who's supporting guys wearing fake suicide vests? I think that's frightening and disgusting, personally.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Wtf????

My bad. I remembered incorrectly. You had stated that you believe Hamas can live in peace with Israel, not that you supported Hamas.

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by Azure

I'm old enough to remember when the Nazi symbols showed up at the trucker protests and how lots here, in the government and in the media went off the rails because of it.

But suicide vests aren't really a bad thing, amirite? They're really not even actually saying that they actually want to actually you know kill people? Not quite at least.

They don't even support Hamas! Just ask Zary!

When did I say that? You and Nage are really good at saying things that are totally made up.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

My bad. I remembered incorrectly. You had stated that you believe Hamas can live in peace with Israel, not that you supported Hamas.

I've gone on record saying that I don't like Hamas. I've also said that it's not my place or your place and certainly not Israel's place to impose a government on the Palestinians against their will.

I would hope that we can get to a point where Hamas aren't the most attractive option for Palestinians. That's certainly not going to happen while Israel does its best at being worse than them. With that said, if Hamas and Israel reorganize and find a way to live peacefully together, then who cares. That's a decent outcome.

[AltaGuy]

So yeah, Hamas bad.

But there have now been 35,000+ deaths, 13,000+ CHILDREN in Gaza.

The fury, grief, despair in Gaza. In what world does anyone expect Gazans to renounce Hamas or similarly aligned terrorist groups after a massacre like this? It's bananas. It's anti-human nature. Only by denying Gazans' humanity could anyone think this is anything but naked racism and genocide.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by _Q_

I've gone on record saying that I don't like Hamas. I've also said that it's not my place or your place and certainly not Israel's place to impose a government on the Palestinians against their will.

I would hope that we can get to a point where Hamas aren't the most attractive option for Palestinians. That's certainly not going to happen while Israel does its best at being worse than them. With that said, if Hamas and Israel reorganize and find a way to live peacefully together, then who cares. That's a decent outcome.

I agree.

However, I do not believe that Hamas has any desire to live in peace with Israel. You don’t plan and execute what happened on Oct 7 with a desire to live in peace.

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

I agree.

However, I do not believe that Hamas has any desire to live in peace with Israel. You don’t plan and execute what happened on Oct 7 with a desire to live in peace.

And most people, myself included don't believe Israel has any desire to live in peace with Palestinians. Whether in Gaza or the places the IDF and Israeli citizens are torturing and killing in the West Bank.

Hamas= bad

Israel = bad

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

I agree.

However, I do not believe that Hamas has any desire to live in peace with Israel. You don’t plan and execute what happened on Oct 7 with a desire to live in peace.

Do you know if Israel was violent at all toward Palestinians prior to October 7? Like, do you know if Israel killed more Palestinians in every single year than the other way around?

Oh hai, I found some info on that (citation):
2008 - 2024 - 6,847 Palestinian fatalities at the hands of Israel (data on casualties in the Gaza Strip are not added post October 7, 2023 until these incidents have been independently verified).

2008 - 2024 - 321 Israeli fatalities at the hands of Palestinians.

That Israel is pretty scrappy for a peaceful nation, guy.

Maybe the injuries will tell a different story...oh wait, nope! Turns out the peace-loving IDF likes inflicting injuries on Palestinians, too:

2008 - 2024 - 158,123 Palestinian injuries at the hands of Israel (data on injuries in the Gaza Strip are not added post October 7, 2023 until these incidents have been independently verified).

2008 - 2024 - 6,449 Israeli injuries at the hands of Palestinians.

I assume this will change nothing about how you view the situation lol.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

And most people, myself included don't believe Israel has any desire to live in peace with Palestinians. Whether in Gaza or the places the IDF and Israeli citizens are torturing and killing in the West Bank.

Hamas= bad

Israel = bad

This is totally ignorant of the facts. Israel wants peace and have time and again mad efforts for peace amongst its neighbours, often successfully. When not successful, there is one thing in common…Iran.

Israel is the way it is because they are surrounded by Iranian militias bombarding Israel with attacks. Want peace with Israel? Make peace with Israel. Over 20% of Israel are Muslims, neighbours and coworkers. They go to the same restaurants and doctors.

I can’t say the same for Israel’s neighbours but I hope one day when there is increased pressure on Iran that both sides wake up and decide enough is enough. Recent efforts from both Saudi Arabia and Israel are evidence of moving forward.

[PsYcNeT]

"Israel wants peace" y'know, if you entirely ignore the hyper-militaristic monoculture they've fostered and the rabid kill-em-all rhetoric of their government

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

"Israel wants peace" y'know, if you entirely ignore the hyper-militaristic monoculture they've fostered and the rabid kill-em-all rhetoric of their government

Their prime minister is literally a Hamas supporter in order to give him an excuse not to make peace with the Palestinians. Yet somehow, they want peace.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Their prime minister is literally a Hamas supporter in order to give him an excuse not to make peace with the Palestinians. Yet somehow, they want peace.

Yeah, the majority of Israelis almost certainly do. But I don’t think anyone can say with a straight face that Israel does so long as Netanyahu is in charge.