Sportsnet - Flames have discussed taking on Bernier's contract

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Monahan For Mayor

I'm on the fence. I think Raanta will be a better goalie and could be had for free possibly this summer. If we take his contract we have to send an equally bad one back.

Why not both?

Replace Hiller with Bernier, as Bernier has far more upside.

And in the summer, sign Raanta and run with Bernier and Raanta next year, with Ortio pushing to replace one of them.

[btimbit]

I'm all for replacing Hiller with Bernier.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I always maintained that people were going to be in for a rude surprise about what "average" goaltending is once Kipper left. We had almost a decade of one of the best goaltenders ever IMO. Even him at his worst was better than anything we are going to see for a long time. To expect him to be replaced within a few years is a pipe dream. We can only hope that Gillies or MacDonald can prove to be even close to what Kipper was.

Disagree. The Flames got. Decidedly average goaltending last year and most people were very satisfied with that. This season, most people are clamoring for just average goaltending.

[mrdonkey]

Hiller/Raymond for Bernier/Grabner. Make it so!

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I would take Turek and Wregget over any goaltender this team has had post Kipper. Hiller last year was the best goaltender we have seen since Kipper and he was barely league average.

That's untrue. Hiller's "adjusted" save percentage (adjusted to league averages for for based on shot / save locations) was 10th best among starters (2520+ Minutes Played). In particular his "high-danger" save percentage was 7th best in the league among starters. He was better than any of us give him credit for last year. Even in games where he let in that one early soft goal he would finish with 1 or 2 GA.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Disagree. The Flames got. Decidedly average goaltending last year and most people were very satisfied with that. This season, most people are clamoring for just average goaltending.

I don't know if I would say VERY satisfied. People were wanting the goalie situation shored up as soon as the season ended.

My point was more that it's unlikely we will ever have a goaltender as good as Kipper, and people's expectations for what average or good goaltending may have been skewed by having him for so long. Franchises have gone their entire existence without having a player between the pipes like him.

[sec304]

Originally Posted by Domoic

250 days since Bernier last won an NHL game.

Sounds like he's due

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

That's untrue. Hiller's "adjusted" save percentage (adjusted to league averages for for based on shot / save locations) was 10th best among starters (2520+ Minutes Played). In particular his "high-danger" save percentage was 7th best in the league among starters. He was better than any of us give him credit for last year. Even in games where he let in that one early soft goal he would finish with 1 or 2 GA.

Yeah he probably doesn't get enough credit for last season and it's probably due to the fact he would have the occasional dud followed by a few games where he let in a soft goal. This season he just hasn't been able to put it together.

[Fan in Exile]

People have knee-jerk reactions to goalies. Remember how most people on here wanted Ramo lynched and exiled from North America until about a month ago? Now everyone thinks he's better than Bernier! Bernier's career save percentage is better than Ramo's best season. He's definitely going through a serious slump but he's 27 and he's more likely than not to find his form again. Not sure about this season but if Ramo could find his game this season, I don't see why Bernier can't, especially with a fresh start on a new team.

[ClubFlames]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

People have knee-jerk reactions to goalies. Remember how most people on here wanted Ramo lynched and exiled from North America until about a month ago? Now everyone thinks he's better than Bernier! Bernier's career save percentage is better than Ramo's best season. He's definitely going through a serious slump but he's 27 and he's more likely than not to find his form again. Not sure about this season but if Ramo could find his game this season, I don't see why Reimer can't, especially with a fresh start on a new team.

Ramo and Hiller for Bernier and Reimer?

[Bunk]

Maybe he can be the next Dubnyk?

[Fan in Exile]

Originally Posted by ClubFlames

Ramo and Hiller for Bernier and Reimer?

That's an even better idea! (Thanks, I've made the edit).

Although, the fact Reimer has turned it around is another example of what I'm talking about. Everyone had given up on him and it seemed like no one was interested in him in the summer. Where would the Flames sit now if they had Reimer and his 935 save percentage. Wonder what it would have taken to land him this summer - probably not too much.

[868904]

I think the problem with Hiller is that his personality does not endear him to the coach, and when the coach doesn't like him, he loses confidence, which affects his game.

When I say personality, I don't mean he's a bad apple or anything negative, but he just seems reserved and maybe appears non-chalant, relative to Ramo who seems like much more of a character and his competitiveness is very visible.

It seems when Hiller loses the support of his coach, his game goes to crap. It is true that Hiller was very good last year for the Flames and was also very good for the majority of the Vancouver series with the exception of that weird Game 6. After Game 6, Ramo became Hartley's No. 1.

[FBI]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I have full confidence Hiller will find his game. Do not want to take on 4M of cap next season in a goalie.

What could possibly give you full confidence for this?

[drewtastic]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I take it you'd turn your nose up at Ben Bishop or Devan Dubnyk?

They can block all they want, play on their knees all they want, just keep the puck out. Which is what Hiller did as well as Ramo for large stretches last year.

There's no doubt who's playing better now, though the margin isn't as big as some imagine, especially if you omit Hiller's sick games and Ramo's last two where he finally was solid.

I would indeed. Just don't like the particular style, is all. And Hiller's particular style causes him to let out plenty of rebounds. If he could absorb some of those, my opinion may be slightly different.

Nevertheless, with the winds of change blowing towards reducing goaltender equipment, I foresee a revival of the "athletic-style" goaltender...I think the Flames should focus their efforts in that direction, going forward.

As for the margin between the two, I agree that it isn't huge. But I think the Flames need to upgrade on Ramo too; the margin between the two we have may be slight, but that's not really saying much.

[Fan in Exile]

Originally Posted by FBI

What could possibly give you full confidence for this?

Some advanced stats prognosis, no doubt.

[flamesfan55]

I look at it this way. Ortio looked awful this year and is doing nothing special in the AHL, Gillies is done for the year and now loses a whole years worth of development, HIller has been very bad and is getting old, Ramo has be OK. Bernier had great success in LA and has struggled in Toronto. Many players struggle there because of the insane amount of media and fan pressure. I think Bernier would be a good pick up. He's a decent age and could end up being a decent asset going forwards. As many have said if the price is right then it's worth a shot. We have no goalies under contract next year anyways so if he doesn't pan out as a starter he would be a decent back up and you try to get a guy like Ben Bishop as your starter next year.

[flamesfan55]

Double post

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

Now everyone thinks he's better than Bernier!

I sure as hell don't.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by FBI

What could possibly give you full confidence for this?

Because he is a 388 game NHL veteran who's never finished a season under a .910 save percentage. Other such proven NHL starters started this same season ice cold - Rask, Bobrovsky, Varlamov. So too did Ramo, BTW. They've all bounced back and so too will Hiller.

If it were an injury or old age or shattered confidence it would be pretty obvious. But just from watching the goals he's let in the last two games they were just very typical "bad Hiller" games. He had some even worse games last year and bounced back from them with great play.