Does nationality matter in terms of prospect’s likelihood to stay in Calgary?

[FlamesAddiction]

Most blue chip prospects are going to sign an ELC as soon as they can, especially if they are drafted out of junior, so getting them under contract after drafting them isn't usually an issue. It becomes a little trickier with college and university players who are ready because there is an incentive to continue their education. If you are burning a 1st round pick, I think you need to weigh that risk and get a good feel for what the intentions of the player are before you draft them.

The key here is asset management and what happens with that 2nd contract. If the player is trending to become a star and you can't get them signed to a long term deal, you need to flip the asset. To be fair, that isn't just a thing with American players. A lot of players regardless of where they are from, may not want to commit to giving up UFA years. It's just important for teams like the Flames to manage the assets well if that is case. With Tkachuk, it seems like Treliving was honestly caught off guard that he wouldn't be signing long term after the bridge and was then forced into a very limited trade market. It shoulldn't get to that point. Same thing with Gaudreau. The player said as early as August before the season began that he didn't want to talk about an extension until after the next season, and that should have been a huge red flag. Some teams can take the risk to walk the player to the end of the season, but small market Canadian teams can't take that risk. You have to get in front it quicky.

[Freeway]

Players want to go where they think they can have success.

[RedHawk12]

Originally Posted by getbak

It wasn't that long ago when the only players who chose to go to Florida were washed-up guys who were hanging on well past their primes. I used to go to games when the Panthers came to town and spend half the time going, "Oh, he's still playing? I thought he retired 5 years ago."

Absolutely. Players want to win. Build a sustainable winner and players will want to play here regardless of nationality.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by RedHawk12

Absolutely. Players want to win. Build a sustainable winner and players will want to play here regardless of nationality.

A lot of those teams survived a long enough time now that they also have hardcore fans, which I think helps. The NHL is still #4 in a lot of American markets, but the niche is a lot stronger now. They have some hockey gravity now.

I remember when the Flames were playing Tampa in the SC finals, they weren't even on the front page of their local sports page. It was all talking about the upcoming NFL season. The Tampa fan on hear who came to CP to troll even said he didn't care that much about winning and hockey was just something football fans casually followed after the NFL ended.

I get the sense that even though the NHL is still #4 in that market, they get more respect now at least.

[curves2000]

Every NHL city has it's competitive advantages in some aspect but I do think ethnicity and cultural background can play a role in some European and American players wanting to sign in the Prairie provinces.

I brought this up once in the political thread for other reasons but for European/Russian players having more of a taste of home or home's cultural background, does help. Calgary/Edmonton and Winnipeg don't really have a lot of that offering. It's not that we don't have those immigrant communities here , it's just that is there a strong Swedish supermarket offering in western Canada? Where can we get some Czech delicacies? How strong of a community/church situation is there for the Russian players for big Orthodox holidays like Christmas and Easter?

It's not just the players themselves, a lot of times the wives/girlfriends are also looking at this and they want some aspect of their cultural background for their children. Language school, religious education, cultural and community events/food/celebrations and more.

Sometimes I think it would be wise for the Flames to really nail down on players from the interior BC, AB, SK and MB. It's close, a lot of times they will have friends and family here and their loved ones can travel here easily.

I just don't know if poor weather, lack of cultural offerings, higher taxes, poor travel options for something really "different" close by and a poorly managed organization from a winning perspective (Calgary) can really compete with some of these non Canadian players.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by troutman

So does California and New York.

That’s why they flock to Dallas, Vegas and Florida

[GirlySports]

It depends on the player.

Backlund for example loves playing in Calgary and stated he would not want to raise his kids in the US. He's staying here for the rebuild when he could have easily left like the others.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

It depends on the player.

Backlund for example loves playing in Calgary and stated he would not want to raise his kids in the US. He's staying here for the rebuild when he could have easily left like the others.

He did? When?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

A lot of people forget that Matthew Tkachuk is half-Canadian. He mentioned before that his mother's side of the family lives in Winnipeg and he felt a connection to Western Canada. He also chose to play junior in Canada. His brother also signed a long term deal to play in Canada. I don't think him leaving had to do with being American and not wanting to play in Canada. I think he was a little miffed about the Flames specifically and figured if he was going to bridged, he would take that opportunity to move on.

Tkachuk gave a relatively small list of teams that he wanted to play for. They were either NYC/NJ, St. Louis (where he has obvious ties), or teams with low tax rates and very few Covid restrictions. This was the list: Dallas Stars, Florida Panthers, Nashville Predators, New Jersey Devils, New York Rangers, St. Louis Blues, Vegas Knights.

Tkachuk seemed pretty fed up with the way Canada was running things. He clearly had issues with more than just the Flames. Tkachuk wanted the chance to be a big shot in NYC or play in freedom land.

IMO Tkachuk is likely still a Flame if Covid didn't happen.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Conroy just needs to do his best building through the draft, period.



The only prospects that i am hesitant on is NCAA players that are a bit of a project and need 3+ seasons. It isn't such an easy decision to remain in school for 3 more seasons if you are offered an NHL contract after the 1st season in the NCAA. I don't think it is a difficult decision to remain in school for the last year, finish your degree, and then have your pick of NHL teams to play for.


Other than that, I have no worries about drafting anyone from anywhere. I prefer Canadians just so I can cheer them on in international competitions more easily, but that's about it. There have been lots of Americans happy to live here, including the GM. There have been lots of other internationals as well.



Calgary needs to just draft well, have these kids grow up together and make strong bonds with one another, and step it up in other ways (like the meals and other 'first class' services some other teams provide), and really build on the Alumni.



Calgary has become the most irrelevant Canadian market in the last few years. Why? Vancouver, Toronto and Edmonton in the playoffs. Montreal will always be a famous organization. Winnipeg in the playoffs. Ottawa is spinning wheels right now but they are likely to come out of it soon, so at best we are tied with Ottawa.


I do believe that if Covid didn't happen, and Gaudreau's dad didn't have that health scare, things might have been a lot different. Outside of Fox and the two failures - Hickey and Erixon - Flames haven't had much in the way of players wanting out. You have to go all the way back to Drury, I believe.


Once Gaudreau left, Tkachuk's decision was easy. Once Tkachuk stated he prefers to move on, it set-off a cascade reaction. Nobody wants to play for a loser if they can help it. Build a winner, and few won't want to play for Calgary, all other things being equal. That last bit is tricky - all other things being equal. Pay equal money (not having to overpay, and likely Calgary is a city that will rarely have many team-friendly deals given the tax environment and weather).



I think the sentiment is really overblown. I would bet as many Canadian-born players would rather not play in Calgary right now too.



Everyone would love to play with McDavid and Draisaitl, but that's pushing it as far as environment goes, plus I do believe they have a bit of a black mark as being perceived as a poorly-run organization that doesn't treat its players well - stuff like asking Comrie to pay back a portion of his contract, to Souray's treatment, to Reider being blamed for a bad season. Still, they managed to sign one of the more prominent UFAs in Lucic (which aged very poorly, yes), and there hasn't been much noise about players wanting out of that market lately, though Kane made it known he preferred to sign elsewhere before re-upping there.


The noise in Vancouver has quieted-down dramatically from last season. As soon as Toronto misses the playoffs and have to do a retool/rebuild, you will suddenly start hearing about how UFAs don't want to play there, and that it is too hard with the media and fanbase.



San Jose was probably the #1 destination for UFAs in the NHL for many seasons, but NOBODY is wanting to sign there right now.


Win, and all the noise dies. Winning cures all. It is magic.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Conroy just needs to do his best building through the draft, period.



The only prospects that i am hesitant on is NCAA players that are a bit of a project and need 3+ seasons. It isn't such an easy decision to remain in school for 3 more seasons if you are offered an NHL contract after the 1st season in the NCAA. I don't think it is a difficult decision to remain in school for the last year, finish your degree, and then have your pick of NHL teams to play for.


Other than that, I have no worries about drafting anyone from anywhere. I prefer Canadians just so I can cheer them on in international competitions more easily, but that's about it. There have been lots of Americans happy to live here, including the GM. There have been lots of other internationals as well.

I have reservations about players that play for the US National Development Team too. They seem to have very strong ties with each other and to the Eastern USA region.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by TOfan

He did? When?

Garbage Bag day.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/960/flames-...kael-backlund/

around 10:00 mark but he talks about playing in Calgary throughout the press conference.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Goriders

That’s why they flock to Dallas, Vegas and Florida

Wait, where is our flock here in Washington state?

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

My impression from living in the US for the last 25 or so years is that there is a general vibe that foreigners come to the US to work, Americans don't necessarily travel to other countries to work.

Never really heard any of my Canadian friends express reservations about moving to the US, and the European friends I've had never thought twice about moving to go to school and/or work.

It's definitely a generalization, but it's there in the ethos. America is the shining city on a hill.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Garbage Bag day.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/960/flames-...kael-backlund/

around 10:00 mark but he talks about playing in Calgary throughout the press conference.

That's also from a player speaking with the Captain's responsibility to send a message. Before he was re-signed and got the captaincy, Backlund had a different tone.

[Hack&Lube]

I think the players with famliies that are settled here, kids in school, etc. were the most likely to remain around.

Zadorov himself - I would often see him in person around town up to July because his daughters were finishing school. He said he liked it here and his family liked it here and he would have considered being a Flame for the rest of his career. He only asked for that trade when it became apparent no long-term contract was forthcoming.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Garbage Bag day.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/960/flames-...kael-backlund/

around 10:00 mark but he talks about playing in Calgary throughout the press conference.

Calgary Flames defenceman Mikael Backlund wraps up the season on locker clean-out day. Mikael talked about his first season as team captain, the struggles of the team this season, and what the future might hold.

Changing it up for next year? Could be interesting?

[Ba'alzamon]

Originally Posted by blankall

Changing it up for next year? Could be interesting?

Honestly, a Backlund - Weegar pairing would probably be pretty good lol.

[CliffFletcher]

“Players want to play where they can win” isn’t straightforward in a league with so much parity.

Established players typically sign 4-6 year contracts. Only a few teams stay at the top over that kind of timespan, and only a few stay at the bottom. The other 20 or so teams will typically spend 2-3 years in the playoffs and 2-3 years outside the playoffs.

If a 25 year old player is looking to sign a 6 year contract this summer, will it matter much in terms of winning whether they sign with the Flames, the Predators, the Kraken, the Blues, the Flyers, or the Islanders? Probably not.

Veteran stars who have 2-3 years left in their careers move around to chase a Cup. To everyone else, the great majority of the teams in the league are interchangeable as far as chance to win goes. Sure, they’ll want to avoid the teams deliberately tanking for several years. And they’d prefer to join an elite team like the Avs or Panthers - but so would everyone else, there’s only so many spots on a roster, and those teams are typically capped out.

So in most cases, location matters more than odds of winning. Cities and geography are fixed, while winning is highly speculative and fluid. It has been well attested that the small-market Canadian teams are on most no-trade lists. It sucks, but it’s naive to pretend teams like Calgary, Winnipeg, and Ottawa aren’t at a competitive disadvantage when it comes to signing, trading for, and keeping players. Particularly Americans.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

America is the shining city on a hill.

Until you need to go to the hospital.