Israel declares war on Hamas

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by Azure

There is a reason Egypt not only has a wall, but is fortifying it each year. Once you figure out why, you'll understand the situation a little better.

Could it be because Egypt knows if they take in the Gazans Israel will never allow them to return and steal and sell their land to Americans living in New York?

Or is it because you think Palestinians are savages that even their muslim neighbors don't want them? I think it's telling you are speaking in dog whistles and won't come out and say that.

[Fuzz]

Yes Azure, you've been hinting at this forever, without saying it. What is this reason you say we will understand when we figure it out?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

Could it be because Egypt knows if they take in the Gazans Israel will never allow them to return and steal and sell their land to Americans living in New York?

Or is it because you think Palestinians are savages that even their muslim neighbors don't want them? I think it's telling you are speaking in dog whistles and won't come out and say that.

Israelis have no plans to build in Gaza.

Egyptians won't let Gazans in for two reasons. Firstly to perpetuate the conflict. Secondly because Hamas is dangerous. Egypt has their own wars with militants, including Hamas members, in the Sinai. Hamas is also an off shoot of the Muslim brotherhood, who threaten to overthrow the Egyptian government.

Egypt not only controls the flow of people or of Gaza. Egypt had historically allowed about 40k crossings a day into Egypt, but totally closed things off after Hamas came into power.

Egypt also strictly controls the flow of goods into Gaza, enforcing a much harsher blockade than even Israel did.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by blankall

Israelis have no plans to build in Gaza.

Another miss

"I have friends in Tel Aviv," she says, "so they say, 'Don't forget to keep for me a plot near the coast in Gaza,' because it's a beautiful, beautiful coast, beautiful golden sand".
She tells them the plots on the coast are already booked.
Mrs Weiss heads a radical settler organisation called Nachala, or homeland. For decades, she has been kickstarting Jewish settlements in the Israeli-occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem, on Palestinian land captured by Israel in the 1967 Middle East war.

…

The handful in attendance seem already convinced. "I want to go back immediately," says Sarah Manella. "When they call me, I will go back to Gush Katif [the former Israeli settlement bloc in Gaza]."

…

For some in the Israeli cabinet, the Palestinian territory - now drenched in blood - is ripe for resettlement. That includes Israel's hard-right National Security Minister Itamar Ben Gvir - a settler himself.

In late January, he made his way through a packed conference hall, slowed by embraces and handshakes. He was among friends - about 1,000 ultranationalists pushing for a return to Gaza at the event entitled Settlement Brings Security.

Mr Ben Gvir, who favours "encouraging emigration", was among a dozen cabinet ministers in attendance.

"It's time to go back home," he said from the stage, to loud applause. "It's time to return to the land of Israel. If we don't want another 7 October, we need to return home and control the land."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68650815

[Fuzz]

Silly Pepsi, those are extreme elements, not how Israel thinks. Except that the government IS full of extreme elements, and that's exactly how they think.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Another miss



https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68650815

Those literally are extremists. Show me plans from the government, and not some fringe settler party. The actual government policy was to withdraw wholly from Gaza in 2005, almost 20 years ago.

We could do this all day. I can find extremist quotes from Palestinians that say some downright awful things. I can find videos of crowds of Palestinians desecrated the body of recently murdered and raped 20 year old woman. Are you stating that those actions are representative of all Palestinians?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by blankall

Those literally are extremists. Show me plans from the government, and not some fringe settler party. The actual government policy was to withdraw wholly from Gaza in 2005, almost 20 years ago.

We could do this all day. I can find extremist quotes from Palestinians that say some downright awful things. I can find videos of crowds of Palestinians desecrated the body of recently murdered and raped 20 year old woman. Are you stating that those actions are representative of all Palestinians?

I posted it earlier, but you can't look at what they are doing in the West Bank and pretend they also wouldn't do that elsewhere. I mean, I guess you can say it, but why should anyone believe it?

Israel’s far-right finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, announced the seizure of 10 square kilometers (3.8 square miles) of Palestinian territory in the West Bank on Friday. The move marks the single largest land seizure by the Israeli government since the 1993 Oslo accords, according to Peace Now, a settlement watchdog group.




“While there are those in Israel and the world who seek to undermine our right over the Judea and Samaria area and the country in general,” Smotrich said Friday, referring to the territory by its biblical name, “we are promoting settlement through hard work and in a strategic manner all over the country.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...blinken-visit/

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I posted it earlier, but you can't look at what they are doing in the West Bank and pretend they also wouldn't do that elsewhere. I mean, I guess you can say it, but why should anyone believe it?



https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...blinken-visit/

You actually can look at them separately. They are two separate areas. The Israeli government has never at any time stated they will give back 100% of the West Bank. They have always stated they will expand in Jerusalem, where there has been a Jewish majority since 1830, and will keep major settlement blocks for strategic reason. They have offered 95% of the West Bank back plus land swaps in the past.

From a logistical point of view, wedging Israeli settlements back into the Gaza Strip would be extremely difficult, with a Palestinian population of 2.3 million and rising. Previous peace plans have even shown the Israelis providing the Gazans with more land in the Negev, not taking it away.

[Leondros]

Originally Posted by blankall

You actually can look at them separately. They are two separate areas. The Israeli government has never at any time stated they will give back 100% of the West Bank. They have always stated they will expand in Jerusalem, where there has been a Jewish majority since 1830, and will keep major settlement blocks for strategic reason. They have offered 95% of the West Bank back plus land swaps in the past.

From a logistical point of view, wedging Israeli settlements back into the Gaza Strip would be extremely difficult, with a Palestinian population of 2.3 million and rising. Previous peace plans have even shown the Israelis providing the Gazans with more land in the Negev, not taking it away.

Should we look at Russia's land grabs separately too? While they have no explicitly stated they would look to expand into Eastern Europe it it still a huge fear of NATO. Why would a government publicly state their intentions when it is not in their best interests to do so?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by blankall

You actually can look at them separately. They are two separate areas. The Israeli government has never at any time stated they will give back 100% of the West Bank. They have always stated they will expand in Jerusalem, where there has been a Jewish majority since 1830, and will keep major settlement blocks for strategic reason. They have offered 95% of the West Bank back plus land swaps in the past.

From a logistical point of view, wedging Israeli settlements back into the Gaza Strip would be extremely difficult, with a Palestinian population of 2.3 million and rising. Previous peace plans have even shown the Israelis providing the Gazans with more land in the Negev, not taking it away.

Well not anymore it isn't...


But again, why should anyone trust Israel when they keep taking the West Bank? Why would you think they will stop there? This is a long term goal, and I'm not naive enough to just pretend they have no interest, when clearly settlers do(previous article), and settlers are running the show.

[ResAlien]

Lol sorry I try to stay out of this as much as possible but “Israelis have no plans to build in Gaza” made me real life lol. Cmon now

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Azure

Trump said he's building a wall. A big portion of the wall was built, while everyone laughed at him. Then Biden became President and a lot of it was stopped.

Texas wants to build a wall, the feds are stopping them.

They can't even agree to put up razer wire.

Money is no object. There are long stretches where the US could 100% shut down all migrant traffic, even without a wall.

So keep spinning.

There is a reason Egypt not only has a wall, but is fortifying it each year. Once you figure out why, you'll understand the situation a little better.

Which you know I've said before, but everyone is so caught up in the "BLAME ISRAEL" part of the equation that they can't see past it.

This explains soooooo much.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by blankall

Those literally are extremists. Show me plans from the government, and not some fringe settler party. The actual government policy was to withdraw wholly from Gaza in 2005, almost 20 years ago.

We could do this all day. I can find extremist quotes from Palestinians that say some downright awful things. I can find videos of crowds of Palestinians desecrated the body of recently murdered and raped 20 year old woman. Are you stating that those actions are representative of all Palestinians?

So, by your logic, I’m supposed to infer that when you say “Israelis” you’re not referring to all Israelis, but when I point to specific Israelis that disprove your generalization (including a member of the government), I’m actually the one inferring that they’re representative of all Israelis?

That uhhh, makes perfect sense I guess. Sure.

Do you ever get tired of just straight up having zero idea what you’re talking about and expecting nobody here to catch on? Like, do you think everyone else is stupid, or is this a you-issue where you actually believe the stuff you say?

It’s just fascinating that you consistently position yourself as knowing better than the Israeli government on the intents and beliefs of the Israeli government. Like, sure, “ah wah extremists don’t count! settlers don’t count! these aren’t real Israelis blah blah blah” but I’ve given you quotes from the Prime Minister that disprove the stuff you make up and you just keep trucking, so I get the sense it doesn’t actually matter who said what. Kind of amazing tbh.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

So, by your logic, I’m supposed to infer that when you say “Israelis” you’re not referring to all Israelis, but when I point to specific Israelis that disprove your generalization (including a member of the government), I’m actually the one inferring that they’re representative of all Israelis?

That uhhh, makes perfect sense I guess. Sure.

When someone uses a general term like "Israelis" they would be referring them generally or the views of the people in power. Not the views of every single Israeli. Israel is home to about 10 million people and they would be expected to have varying views.

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Do you ever get tired of just straight up having zero idea what you’re talking about and expecting nobody here to catch on? Like, do you think everyone else is stupid, or is this a you-issue where you actually believe the stuff you say?

It’s just fascinating that you consistently position yourself as knowing better than the Israeli government on the intents and beliefs of the Israeli government. Like, sure, “ah wah extremists don’t count! settlers don’t count! these aren’t real Israelis blah blah blah” but I’ve given you quotes from the Prime Minister that disprove the stuff you make up and you just keep trucking, so I get the sense it doesn’t actually matter who said what. Kind of amazing tbh.

So you admit they are extremists. Can you argue a point without making personal jabs?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by blankall

When someone uses a general term like "Israelis" they would be referring them generally or the views of the people in power. Not the views of every single Israeli. Israel is home to about 10 million people and they would be expected to have varying views.




So you admit they are extremists. Can you argue a point without making personal jabs?

I literally quoted the National Security Minister my guy, what exactly do you need here.

“So you admit they are extremists” uhhhh yeahhhhh man that’s the pooooooint. Are youuuu withhhh meeee yeeeet.

Sincerely apologies for pointing out the consistent pattern you follow that makes “arguing a point” kind of pointless. I’m sorry you’re bad at this?

[Manhattanboy]

For what its worth I think this talk of Israel re-occupying any part of Gaza is pure nonsense. Prior to October 7 I doubt there was any mention of the possibility. It may be fantasy now for certain fringe elements of the Israeli government, but its an extreme and unrealistic reaction to the events of October 7.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I literally quoted the National Security Minister my guy, what exactly do you need here.

“So you admit they are extremists” uhhhh yeahhhhh man that’s the pooooooint. Are youuuu withhhh meeee yeeeet.

Sincerely apologies for pointing out the consistent pattern you follow that makes “arguing a point” kind of pointless. I’m sorry you’re bad at this?

Is anyone denying that Itamar Ben Gvir has extremist views? His party is one of a dozen parties with seats in the Knesset.

Does this work both ways? Do we ascribe extremist views to all Palestinians, or is that still collective punishment?

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by blankall

When someone uses a general term like "Israelis" they would be referring them generally or the views of the people in power. Not the views of every single Israeli. Israel is home to about 10 million people and they would be expected to have varying views.




So you admit they are extremists. Can you argue a point without making personal jabs?

I'm glad you're pointing out how important it is to also listen to the Israeli arab voices. They're Israelis too.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

I'm glad you're pointing out how important it is to also listen to the Israeli arab voices. They're Israelis too.

Agreed. Party's representing Israeli Arabs are allowed to run for seats in the Knesset and, in fact, hold seats in the Knesset.

About 20% of Israel's population is Arab. Their views vary considerably too. Some are opposed to an Israeli state and some fight in the Israeli army against other Arabs.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by blankall

Previous peace plans have even shown the Israelis providing the Gazans with more land in the Negev, not taking it away.

The Rabin-Peres plan included the construction of an elevated freeway across the Negev Desert connecting Gaza and the West Bank, which included utility lines. They also proposed free trade between Israel and the future Palestinian state.