ISIS militants attack and take over Iraqi northern city of Mosul

[Itse]

I would imagine many of those people are some of the same types you have in (serious) organized crime.

Some of that bunch are pretty much like you describe. Some have terrible background, some don't, but what ever the reason they've grown up to be just really bad people.

Many of them are probably just easily duped. Not necessarily low-IQ dumb, just people lacking initiative to do anything with their lives and prone to believing propaganda. Not that prone to do bad things on their own, but on the other hand they make for great foot soldiers, especially since they don't question anything.

Many of those guys in that latter group will probably secretly hate some of the stuff they're doing, but since they're prototypical followers and sidekicks, what they think doesn't matter much.

And many of them will just be happy to have a group to belong to, and if their group tells them it's okay to be a sadistic murdering s***, they'll believe it.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by nik-

Hmm, where have I heard that "cut the head off the snake" before. How many times do they have to kill leaders of terror groups before they realize it doesn't really do anything?

They need to cut off a lot more than the head.

Terrorism and fundamentalism is a Hydra. It's a many headed beast and they grow back twice fast as you can cut them off. Every time they take down a leader, two more grow in it's place. The only way to really create a lasting solution is to build stability, create eduction systems, and build an economy to fight the poverty that drives desperate people into the arms of welcoming fanatics.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

As proven by the loser creep who killed James Foley, who has been identified as a former rapper who had a at worst upper middle class up bringing. The scumbag's from Calgary who were raised upper middle class to moderately wealthy and were given every opportunity.

These people are inhumane thrill killers, they're not disenfranchised and marginalized youth, they're psycho paths and the only solution for them is a un marked grave.

As for the recruiting of them, I'm betting the pitch, beyond, hey you get to kill people in the worst possible way and rape anyone that you want and god will forgive you and man won't be able to prosecute you, is that someday soon you'll be able to do the same thing in your home country.

http://nypost.com/2014/08/24/masked-...le-identified/

It takes a different kind of dirt bag to slowly saw the head off of a man, or rape and shoot kids.

Personally I don't care about understanding their root causes, I think the root cause is pretty apparent. Spend money on intelligence with the end goal of extermination.

You can't ignore the root causes however. Sometimes a middle-class upbringing can still lead to people feeling lost in their societies and that is happening in many developing countries. That leads to home-grown terrorists and it's something that can't be left unchecked.

Poverty often drives people to fanatical desperation but all too often, a cushy/soft upbringing can also give somebody too much time to think about things, and leave them vulnerable to radical ideas.

Communities, families, mosques, churches, schools, etc. all need to watch out for signs of disenfranchisement or fanaticism in people here.

[Itse]

I think there's a point to be made here about the "death of ideologies" in the west and the way it has (possibly) left some people feeling empty and lost, prone to be swept up in various extremist movements.

I'm too tired to properly make that argument however

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Terrorism and fundamentalism is a Hydra. It's a many headed beast and they grow back twice fast as you can cut them off. Every time they take down a leader, two more grow in it's place. The only way to really create a lasting solution is to build stability, create eduction systems, and build an economy to fight the poverty that drives desperate people into the arms of welcoming fanatics.

So, and just for arguments sake, a lot of these foreign recruits from Canada and the UK and other Western countries come from places with extremely stable education systems and a economy that for the most part doesn't promote poverty. We're seeing examples of people from middle class and upper class environments that get the best advantages in life and still join these groups.

I think that we tend to forget that members of Al Queda that were highly successful came from wealthy families and had upper end education. Sure I would argue that you probably get a lot of cannon fodder from the poorer situations.

But it seems that the real hateful and angry people in these groups come from people that were included in society not excluded, that were included in the educational system not excluded.

To further the argument on the head of the hydra argument, where if you kill one leader two others rise. I've heard this argument, however if the idea is that you target the people with the most to lose, and that's the ones in the leadership roles that aren't quite so willing to die for their cause. On top of that, there is a good chance that if you kill one very smart, educated, charismatic leader, at some point two bone heads will rise in their place and eventually the organization itself will start to over reach and make mistakes.

going back to the whole inclusion thing, you almost have to destroy the organization because they're the ones for the most part that don't allow the poor and uneducated in the middle east to get what they need, they're the ones that manufacture the feelings of exclusion and anger out there.

At the end of the day, the only real solution is to destroy the leadership of groups like ISIS and groups like Hamas, kill their recruiting centers and try to fill in the crater that those actions would leave with something that helps the average poor smuck.

And for the Western people joining up, you don't allow them back in, you kill them and then back track the recruiting methods.

But if you're going to fight ISIS, fight ISIS, no secret jails or trials, treat them like un-uniformed combatants, and when you capture them, kill em.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Terrorism and fundamentalism is a Hydra. It's a many headed beast and they grow back twice fast as you can cut them off. Every time they take down a leader, two more grow in it's place. The only way to really create a lasting solution is to build stability, create eduction systems, and build an economy to fight the poverty that drives desperate people into the arms of welcoming fanatics.

That is the long term solution. Short term JSOC has been extremely effective. There is a political game to be played here too. Get the various factions in Iraq to work together against ISIS in exchange for help from NATO, EU, etc, etc.

Sad that you have to play with human life to get what you want, but the US has no other choice right now.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

But if you're going to fight ISIS, fight ISIS, no secret jails or trials, treat them like un-uniformed combatants, and when you capture them, kill em.

This is what JSOC did. They created an extremely effective network where it was capture, interrogate, kill. Intelligence was quickly fed back up the chain, and because they operated on their own there was no government interference. This improved the quality of actionable intelligence and at one point in Iraq the group was operating every single night taking down terrorists. The problem was everything got out of control and innocent lives were casually played around with in order for JSOC to get what they wanted.

There was a book and a documentary done on the subject. Very interesting.

JSOC is considered by some the most effective intelligence organization in the world. And it was only created the last few years.

Marc Ambinder, a former reporter for The Atlantic and National Journal, goes deep inside JSOC to reveal that it has become perhaps the government’s most effective intelligence agency. Unassuming office buildings around the Washington area and beyond have become unlabeled spy centers that process untold volumes of information extracted from JSOC’s hunting missions, with such a rapid analytic turnaround time that the “shooters” of the unit can quickly begin planning their next kills. In fact, Ambinder reports in The Command, his just-published eBook, the integration of tactical spying within JSOC is so thorough that it’s hard to distinguish “shooters” from analysts.

Yet JSOC operates with practically no accountability. In Iraq, it ran a torture chamber at a place called Camp Nama — until its leader, Stanley McChrystal and his intelligence chief, Michael Flynn, cleaned it up. (There’s a debate in military circles about whether McChrystal or his friend and successor, Adm. William McRaven deserve credit for JSOC’s resurgence; but Ambinder’s reporting suggests Flynn is the real father of the modern JSOC.) The unit is supposed to answer to the chain of command, but it advised President Obama not to ask which Navy SEAL actually killed Osama bin Laden — and then wouldn’t tell Obama’s chief of staff, who ignored the advice. Even while the CIA works intimately with JSOC, it whispers to reporters, self-interestedly, that the unit is out of control.

But JSOC has the biggest trump card of all to play, institutionally: it works. Killing bin Laden was just the culmination of a furious, decade-long pace of lethal operations, involving hundreds of Afghanistan night raids in a single year; what Ambinder describes as a “free hand” in Somalia, including last month’s dramatic hostage rescue; and unseen counterterrorism mission from Pakistan to, of all places, Peru. JSOC is so busy its leadership thinks it’s exhausted, and prominent analysts claim it needs to step up its game to prevent nuclear terrorism.

http://www.wired.com/2012/02/jsoc-ambinder/

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Terrorism and fundamentalism is a Hydra. It's a many headed beast and they grow back twice fast as you can cut them off. Every time they take down a leader, two more grow in it's place. The only way to really create a lasting solution is to build stability, create eduction systems, and build an economy to fight the poverty that drives desperate people into the arms of welcoming fanatics.

If they cut off one head, two more shall take its place. Hail HYDRA.
Sorry, had to say it... back to serious news.

[PIMking]

You tube should remove all that do*chebags videos so he doesn't get money. I hope he gets to visit his virgins soon

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by PIMking

You tube should remove all that do*chebags videos so he doesn't get money. I hope he gets to visit his virgins soon

I've been having a internal debate about this whole, do you show the videos or don't you.

The age old argument is that if you don't give them attention, and you don't show their videos that they'll eventually fade. Its like not publishing information about crimes in your own city. We've had that debate on this very board a ton of times, especially with serial killer and mass shooting crimes.

However in this case with groups like ISIS, by showing these videos I guess there is no disguising what this group is, and what they want to do. There will be no fading to the back page like we've seen with other stories. There will be no doubt that this group is composed of monsters and certain elements won't be able to sell them based on misunderstandings, or labeling them as freedom fighters.

At the end of the day I believe its up to us to self filter, to decide to watch or not. But the old saying is that knowledge is power, and one of the biggest powers right now is ensuring that everyone knows what this group is about.

[Arya Stark]

I literally get sick by just thinking about the video, I can't imagine how anyone could watch it. It makes my stomach turn.

[PIMking]

When I say videos I'm talking about the bitches rap videos

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by PIMking

When I say videos I'm talking about the bitches rap videos

Sorry, misunderstood your post.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Azure

JSOC is considered by some the most effective intelligence organization in the world. And it was only created the last few years.

http://www.wired.com/2012/02/jsoc-ambinder/

The way I see it, JSOC is a really good example of "effective" intelligence.

Sure, they find something to do (and often someone to kill) for pretty much every night, but it's highly questionable what the long term benefits of their tactics have been, if indeed there have been any. Lots of action looks good on paper though.

JSOC is pretty much everything the jihadists could ask for in terms of a propaganda weapon, doing things such as killing teenage boys of suspected terrorists as a "pro-active" measure.

[Azure]

That was the problem. They were very good at killing terrorists, but they also left a trail of innocent victims behind as well. Either way, that will probably be the direction the US goes in the fight against the ISIS.

[nik-]

And in the "shocked ... but only sarcastically" article of the week.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28948555

[Tyler]

[Mike F]

Calgary brothers the latest Canadians identified as fighting for ISIS

Two more Calgary men have been identified as having joined the ranks of the Islamic State of Iraq and Al-Sham (ISIS) terrorist group in Syria.

The men — brothers Collin and Gregory Gordon — reportedly lived in the same downtown apartment building that was also once home to Damian Clairmont and Salman Ashrafi, both of whom joined terror groups overseas. Clairmont and Ashrafi, as well as Calgarian Farah Shirdon, have all reportedly been killed in conflict.

Police estimate more than 30 Calgarians have been recruited by foreign terror groups. Nationwide, that number is around 130.

Full story

[driveway]

So Calgary has contributed more than 20% of Canadian-born terrorists, while the city itself represents about 3.3% of the population.

What is it about Calgary that makes people want to become terrorists?

[saillias]

Well considering we're the fifth largest city in Canada it's not really that surprising. IS isn't recruiting in Innisfail.