Ongoing General Automotive Thread 2.0

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

I've had both studded and non-studded winters, and IMO they're not worth it. The few days a year where the studs would actually make a difference aren't worth the extra road noise and poor handling on dry pavement the rest of the time. They might make more sense in Edmonton or Winnipeg where they don't get the thaw cycles that we do

I think the “poor handling on dry pavement” aspect is hugely overrated. They aren’t noticeably different than regular winters on dry pavement, when comparing the same tire to the non-studded version.

They’re noisy though. Big time. But once you get used to it, it’s hard to say the extra noise isn’t worth the advantages in the edge cases. If you exclusively drive in the city, I could see how they wouldn’t be quite as magical.

[Table 5]

I've had both on the same car, and I had the same experience as Hemi. Loud as hell, and just didn't seem to handle/brake as well on dry pavement. I can see the benefit in more extreme cases, but I stick to regular winters now.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Table 5

I've had both on the same car, and I had the same experience as Hemi. Loud as hell, and just didn't seem to handle/brake as well on dry pavement. I can see the benefit in more extreme cases, but I stick to regular winters now.

Same car, or same tires?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Yup. And always the same people who conveniently ignore the most important thing, stopping distance.

It's pretty alarming how many drivers still tailgate in slippery conditions. It's no wonder there are so many rear enders in this city. There's just no margin for error when you are right on someone's ass in bad weather. A few times this week I braced myself for a collision looking at my rearview mirror at the person behind me start to lose traction when trying to come to a stop because they were too close and had to stop harder than they would if they left more distance to prepare.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Same car, or same tires?

Same car, with a few years on studded winter tires and a few years on regular winters.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's pretty alarming how many drivers still tailgate in slippery conditions. It's no wonder there are so many rear enders in this city. There's just no margin for error when you are right on someone's ass in bad weather. A few times this week I braced myself for a collision looking at my rearview mirror at the person behind me start to lose traction when trying to come to a stop because they were too close and had to stop harder than they would if they left more distance to prepare.

Yup. The only things that make me nervous in poor conditions are the people behind me.

Actually, it’s funny when you think about the fact that there are people who follow too close to safely stop in bad conditions, and those are probably the same people who blow red lights 2-3 seconds late because they had zero confidence in their ability to stop for a yellow.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Same car, with a few years on studded winter tires and a few years on regular winters.

I wonder if the tires themselves make a difference. I’m running the exact same model of tires that I previously ran unstudded, and I’m not picking up a noticeable difference in handling or braking. It is a year later (hard to compare exactly with that gap), and I know there are studies out there that remark on poorer handling/braking for studded tires on dry, so my subjective experience probably means nothing.

On top of that, I wouldn’t say I own or regularly drive anything that particularly “shines” in the handling department in the first place.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I wonder if the tires themselves make a difference.

I'm sure they do. They studded tires were fancy-pants Nokian Hakkapeliittas thought (while the studless were a much cheaper brand) so one would assume the quality leaned towards the studs. But obviously it was not a lab-test worthy comparison or anything, just an anecdotal one on a Volvo.

On more extreme days, I'm sure the studs perform better... but considering we don't seem to get that much snow now till late Dec/January, and spring time is always full of slush, I'm not sure there are that many days in the "winter tire season" where I personally would prefer them over studless.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's pretty alarming how many drivers still tailgate in slippery conditions. It's no wonder there are so many rear enders in this city. There's just no margin for error when you are right on someone's ass in bad weather. A few times this week I braced myself for a collision looking at my rearview mirror at the person behind me start to lose traction when trying to come to a stop because they were too close and had to stop harder than they would if they left more distance to prepare.

Yeah, this is one of those times where I remind myself that I really need to install the backwards facing camera in my car.

[Bill Bumface]

I know it's not comparable at all, but swapping from studded tires to non-studded on the same bike, it's very noticeable how much more you lose traction in dry conditions on the studs. Especially on smooth concrete, like a garage/parkade.

It's even more noticeable how much they save your ass on ice. Retractable studs would be sweet.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

I know it's not comparable at all, but swapping from studded tires to non-studded on the same bike, it's very noticeable how much more you lose traction in dry conditions on the studs. Especially on smooth concrete, like a garage/parkade.

It's even more noticeable how much they save your ass on ice. Retractable studs would be sweet.

calm down, Wolverine.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

I know it's not comparable at all, but swapping from studded tires to non-studded on the same bike, it's very noticeable how much more you lose traction in dry conditions on the studs. Especially on smooth concrete, like a garage/parkade.

It's even more noticeable how much they save your ass on ice. Retractable studs would be sweet.

I saw a cyclist on studded tires in a parking garage absolutely eat s### right into a pole. He was trying a stunt of some sort and it all just went wrong.

He may have been hurt and requiring assistance but I was far too busy dying of laughter.

[kevman]

The performance of most modern winter tires match, or even exceed, the performance of their studded counterparts. Studs only excel on ice, which we honestly don't see much of.

That said, we run studs on our 2wd van because the added comfort on ice far outweighs the reduced traction in other scenarios.

Also, you guys just need to drive louder cars. I only notice the noise of the studs when I'm driving slow with the windows down or if I have the window down and drive beside a jersey barrier. If the windows are up it's nothing but wind noise and rattles. Hell, our studded winters are quieter than the hum from the all terrains in the summer.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Ironhorse

Any recommendations /personal experiences with a driving school for new teenage drivers? Probably better if my kid learns from someone other than me, and I'll lose less hair.

I've used AMA and it seems good. I will advise you though, that they're insanely busy when it comes to booking the actual driving part of the course (as opposed to the in-class). Like we booked in September, presumably for the road test in November, and my son starts his driving Monday....

[btimbit]

I ran studs once, wouldn't again. 30 years ago maybe they made sense but these days a good studless tire is better in 90% of conditions

But it was sweet to do a burnout at night and see sparks fly

[speede5]

if only there was a winter tire thread.........

[zamler]

Originally Posted by speede5

if only there was a winter tire thread.........

here ya go

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I ran studs once, wouldn't again. 30 years ago maybe they made sense but these days a good studless tire is better in 90% of conditions

But it was sweet to do a burnout at night and see sparks fly

Yep, where your arbitrary 90% applies, I’d say it’s but 60% for me living in the mountains. Icey, snow packed roads are commonplace here. And while there is a noticeable lack of performance cornering on dry with studded, not too bothered when in the most dangerous of road conditions I have the best tire.

Only time I notice the grinding road noise, is at low speeds with window down. Otherwise it’s been virtually unnoticeable for me. I should record a cabin video, and then again when I put the summers on.

[btimbit]

I actually liked the noise. Like an angry swarm of bees in each wheel

[monkeyman]

LOL at studded tires.