Israel declares war on Hamas

[blankall]

Originally Posted by zunie75

So then you agree with Beninhos comment on the drone footage that implies that Gaza got what they asked for because they are a Nazi state?

Is there no separation anymore in how we describe a people, where we can just throw out terms from history and further dilute the meaning. Nazis planned and murdered millions of Jews. Gazans apparently are brainwashed at childbirth, so the equivalent is that they are just like Nazis? Its one thing to suggest Hamas is like the Nazis, its another to suggest that All Gazans are. It seems to me that if all Gazans are brainwashed to want to kill Jews, then they are doing a piss poor job of it by fleeing for their lives from Israel.

I never said anything about the people of Gaza "getting what they asked for". I do believe Hamas was a major player in terms of causing this current conflict. Hamas is most certainly a fascist organization. I've never said any Gazan civilian deserves to die.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by zunie75

Q, Bagor and Beninho, Out of curiosity, what is your expected outcome in this war vs what you hope happens? I only ask, since you folks are closer to the conflict than most and it looks like your opposing opinions likely mirror those of Israelis and Palestinians.

Seems like Q and Bagor have time and time again had to defend their position that Hamas was wrong in everything they have done, but Israel's response is very out of proportion. But I never see any acknowledgment of when will the Palestinian people take responsibility for Hamas and start joining the effort to eliminate Hamas.

Beninho, you seem less interested in any type of diplomacy and are fine with Israel's methods. You have even gone as far as calling the Palestinian people Nazis. How dare someone with your back ground, would stoop to that level. You are actually diminishing what happened to your people in WW2 by doing this. Give your head a shake buddy.

I didn’t call Palestinians Nazis, i said Hamas has created a Nazi like state whose sole function is to attack Israel in the hopes of creating a wider geopolitical war that would see the destruction of Israel. Hamas has brainwashed the population of Gaza with the same imagery the Nazis used to describe Jews, thats why it was so easy for Hamas terrorists to rape and mutilate Jews on October 7th.
Seen here the type of antisemitic rhetoric they feed their children.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/11/05...ion-education/

My hope is that Israel destroys the military arm of Hamas which is currently being accomplished. Hamas has sewn itself into every fabric of Gaza society. They asked for this type of response on 10/7. I don’t take joy out of seeing civilians die but I also understand that this is part of war, especially when dealing with a group as embedded within the civilian population like Hamas is. My preferable outcome to all of this is once Hamas capitulates is for Gaza to be repaired, for there to be a temporary government maybe led by a coalition of states to help govern Gaza with self governance being the ultimate goal down the line. I’m not a geopolitical expert so I am not sure exactly what should happen or what will happen. You cannot just reward the Palestinians with a state after 10/7, that would not fly within the current climate in Israel. Their needs to be a form of trust built that will take years potentially even a decade or more. I am not sure. If you are asking what I would like to see happen is exactly what I wanted to see happen before 10/7. A two state solution where a Palestinian state is more worried about the well being of their population than the destruction of Israel.

Maybe you should also stop believe conspiracy theories like the one you just thanked which makes the dubious unsubstantiated claim the Israeli Government let Hamas carry out October 7th. Truly a conspiracy nut job take. It was a Jewish holiday and Shabbat, the border was less patrolled. Hamas did in fact catch Israel off guard. If you believe this is some master ploy by Netanyahu to wipe Gaza off the map then you have not actually paid attention to Israeli policy regarding Gaza for the past two decades. Netanyahu has always been the champion of Israeli security and to let the worst terrorist attack in the countries history happen under his watch has blood stained his already diminished legacy. He will not survive the next election and most definitely did not invite Hamas to come pillage Israeli towns. Prior to 10/7 Israel's policy was to deal with Hamas violence and moderate Hamas in Gaza. After 10/7 Israeli's policy is to destroy Hamas in Gaza. Israel just spent 17 years working hard to avoid what is happening now. What you are seeing now was always the alternative to the blockade policy. Had Israel wanted to invade Gaza they would have. Prior to 10/7 they simply didn't want to. Now they do.

[zunie75]

Originally Posted by Beninho

I didn’t call Palestinians Nazis, i said Hamas has created a Nazi like state whose sole function is to attack Israel in the hopes of creating a wider geopolitical war that would see the destruction of Israel. Hamas has brainwashed the population of Gaza with the same imagery the Nazis used to describe Jews, thats why it was so easy for Hamas terrorists to rape and mutilate Jews on October 7th.
Seen here.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/11/05...ion-education/

My hope is that Israel destroys the military arm of Hamas which is currently being accomplished. Hamas has sewn itself into every fabric of Gaza society. They asked for this type of response on 10/7. I don’t take joy out of seeing civilians die but I also understand that this is part of war, especially when dealing with a group as embedded within the civilian population like Hamas is. My preferable outcome to all of this is once Hamas capitulates is for Gaza to be repaired, for their to be a temporary government maybe led by a coalition of states to help govern Gaza with self governance being the ultimate goal down the line. I’m not a geopolitical expert so I am not sure exactly what should happen or what will happen. You cannot just reward the Palestinians with a state after 10/7, that would not fly within the current climate in Israel. Their needs to be a form of trust built that will take years potentially even a decade or more. I am not sure. If you are asking what I would like to see happen is exactly what I wanted to see happen before 10/7. A two state solution where a Palestinian state is more worried about the well being of their population than the destruction of Israel.

Maybe you should also stop believe conspiracy theories like the one you just thanked which makes the dubious unsubstantiated claim the Israeli Government let Hamas carry out October 7th. Truly a conspiracy nut job take. It was a Jewish holiday and Shabbat, the border was less patrolled. Hamas did in fact catch Israel off guard. If you believe this is some master ploy by Netanyahu to wipe Gaza off the map then you have not actually paid attention to Israeli policy regarding Gaza for the past two decades. Netanyahu has always been the champion of Israeli security and to let the worst terrorist attack in the countries history happen under his watch has blood stained his already diminished legacy. He will not survive the next election and most definitely did not invite Hamas to come pillage Israeli towns. Prior to 10/7 Israel's policy was to deal with Hamas violence and moderate Hamas in Gaza. After 10/7 Israeli's policy is to destroy Hamas in Gaza. Israel just spent 17 years working hard to avoid what is happening now. What you are seeing now was always the alternative to the blockade policy. Had Israel wanted to invade Gaza they would have. Prior to 10/7 they simply didn't want to. Now they do.

Unfortunately using the "thank" feature is limited. The reason I thanked that specific post was the explanation of Israel's goal to flatten Gaza.

You specifically said that "Gaza is a Nazi like state whos population has been brainwashed since birth." Then you commented on the drone footage "Amazing what happens to a Nazi like pariah state"... Seemingly justifying the destruction because all Gazans are part of this indoctrination by Hamas.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by zunie75

Q, Bagor and Beninho, Out of curiosity, what is your expected outcome in this war vs what you hope happens? I only ask, since you folks are closer to the conflict than most and it looks like your opposing opinions likely mirror those of Israelis and Palestinians.

Seems like Q and Bagor have time and time again had to defend their position that Hamas was wrong in everything they have done, but Israel's response is very out of proportion. But I never see any acknowledgment of when will the Palestinian people take responsibility for Hamas and start joining the effort to eliminate Hamas.

My expected outcome is what is already happening. The complete destruction and ethnic cleansing of Gaza and it's infrastructure including hospitals, schools, agricultural land and homes.

What do I hope will happen?

That the international media will be allowed in to fully show the world the horror of the Genocide that is happening. But that won't happen.

That the International community will step in to prevent the slaughter of innocents, including more newborns, infants and children. But that won't happen.

That the UN or the international community step in to stop the ongoing mass slaughter of people from starvation, hypothermia, and disease from a deliberately denied access to food, water, sanitation, medical supplies and other supplies essential for human life. But that won't happen.

When will Palestinian people start joining the effort to eliminate Hamas? That is now not a realistic question. The short answer is they won't.
Why? Because you can be pretty much guaranteed that every single Palestinian in Gaza now hates Israel for what it has done. And could you honestly blame them? They've been displaced, starved, burying people at a rate of 250/day over the last 100 days including newborns, infants and children at a rate of 100/day.

Maybe another question you might want to ask is why did Netanyahu prop up Hamas for so long?
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-ye...-in-our-faces/

[zunie75]

Originally Posted by blankall

I never said anything about the people of Gaza "getting what they asked for". I do believe Hamas was a major player in terms of causing this current conflict. Hamas is most certainly a fascist organization. I've never said any Gazan civilian deserves to die.

My post was saying that this is what Beninho is implying. You're saying that his comparison is accurate. He's using that comparison to justify the destruction and death in Gaza.

A side question out of curiosity, not sure if anyone would be comfortable saying so, but does any one know of or have experience with Palestinians and what they are taught in school?

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by zunie75

Unfortunately using the "thank" feature is limited. The reason I thanked that specific post was the explanation of Israel's goal to flatten Gaza.

You specifically said that "Gaza is a Nazi like state whos population has been brainwashed since birth." Then you commented on the drone footage "Amazing what happens to a Nazi like pariah state"... Seemingly justifying the destruction because all Gazans are part of this indoctrination by Hamas.

I am not encouraging collective punishment but unlike you I am not amazed at what happens when the jihadi government of Gaza spends billions of dollars in aid to wage a pointless war. This is the direct result of Hamas choosing war and radicalization over peace and statehood. Hamas has turned Gaza into a pariah state whose sole function is to wage war, this is the result. Was completely predictable after 10/7.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by blankall

I never said anything about the people of Gaza "getting what they asked for". I do believe Hamas was a major player in terms of causing this current conflict. Hamas is most certainly a fascist organization. I've never said any Gazan civilian deserves to die.

Oh but you've went above and beyond to the point of telling barefaced, shameless lies in order to defend the deaths.

[ResAlien]

Now I don’t know if the destruction of the Palestinians state was Israel’s initial goal but they seem to have painted themselves into a corner a bit on this. It appears that the global appetite for the destruction Israel is raining down upon Palestinians is waning. They’ve thoroughly destroyed the civilian infrastructure and the mounting civilian deaths almost guarantee that any who survive are likely to turn into the same Hamas Israel says they’re seeking to destroy.

As this drags on this feels like Israel’s endgame is no Palestinian state at all. Their leader has said exactly that so it’s not a reach to believe that. I suspect this is an escalation of what will eventually be constant guerilla warfare against the occupying forces of Israel. No way this comes out anything but bloodier right?

[Southside403]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Please continue your diatribe of Israel’s want to conquer Gaza, it was so rational!

https://youtu.be/2PeYDphtHYo?si=uK9CWnfq3hRovCcL

This is a unbiased video I'd like your thoughts about your government and hamas if you get a chance to fully watch it.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by Southside403

https://youtu.be/2PeYDphtHYo?si=uK9CWnfq3hRovCcL

This is a unbiased video I'd like your thoughts about your government and hamas if you get a chance to fully watch it.

I am not Israeli, I am Canadian. I have Israeli family members.

I am not pro-Netanyahu, all of my Israeli family members and friends voted against him. My cousins even attended several anti-Netanyahu protests last year. You do not have to convince me that Netanyahu is also bad. I am pro-peace and I am well aware of the anti-peace intentions of Likud and Bibi. Regardless it has never been Israeli policy to take over and ethnically cleanse Gaza. If you actually think that you have been consuming too many youtube videos.

It is almost like this is an incredibly nuanced geopolitical conflict where people want to paint each side with one brush.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by zunie75

A side question out of curiosity, not sure if anyone would be comfortable saying so, but does any one know of or have experience with Palestinians and what they are taught in school?

Are you being serious? I don't see the benefit of downplaying the actions of Hamas. Their takeover over the education system is well documented:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...e-kalashnikovs

Even the more "moderate" Palestinian Authority, was cited by the EU:

https://www.eureporter.co/politics/e...-and-violence/

Their resolution from July of 2023, a few months before the October attacks:

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo...3-0283_EN.html

deplore the problematic and hateful content in Palestinian school textbooks and study material, which has yet to be removed; underline that education and pupils’ access to peaceful and unbiased textbooks are essential, especially in the context of the rising involvement of teenagers in terrorist attacks; stress that EU financial support for the PA in the area of education should only be provided on the condition that textbook content be aligned with UNESCO standards, as decided by EU education ministers in Paris on 17 March 2015, that all antisemitic references be deleted and that examples that incite hatred and violence be removed, as repeatedly requested in the resolutions accompanying the discharge decisions in respect of the implementation of the general budget of the European Union for the financial years 2016, 2018, 2019 and 2020; request therefore that the Commission closely scrutinise whether the PA modifies the full curriculum expeditiously;

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Beninho

It is almost like this is an incredibly nuanced geopolitical conflict where people want to paint each side with one brush.

Like, you mean, calling all Palestinians animals?

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Like, you mean, calling all Palestinians animals?

Sure if you want to manipulate my words which i posted on October 7th for which i already apologized and explained it was meant for Hamas and their supporters. Why don’t you go post another Quds link

[Bagor]

I'm not manipulating your words. That is what you said.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by Bagor

I'm not manipulating your words. That is what you said.

Ok, and I am not manipulating your posts, you post sources directly from Hamas sponsored news media.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Ok, and I am not manipulating your posts, you post sources directly from Hamas sponsored news media.

Which post and was that post inaccurate or false or intended to mislead?

I've also posted genocide numbers from Gaza Health authority.

Btw, I thought you weren't staying long? Can't even be honest with yourself.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Which post and was that post inaccurate or false or intended to mislead?


I've also posted genocide numbers from Gaza Health authority.

Nm, i dont wanna be sin binned again from engaging with you. Blocked to not further derail an already mess of a thread.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Beninho

I am not Israeli, I am Canadian. I have Israeli family members.

I am not pro-Netanyahu, all of my Israeli family members and friends voted against him. My cousins even attended several anti-Netanyahu protests last year. You do not have to convince me that Netanyahu is also bad. I am pro-peace and I am well aware of the anti-peace intentions of Likud and Bibi. Regardless it has never been Israeli policy to take over and ethnically cleanse Gaza. If you actually think that you have been consuming too many youtube videos.

It is almost like this is an incredibly nuanced geopolitical conflict where people want to paint each side with one brush.

To the first bolded point, you’ve spent the better part of four months vicious defending his government’s actions and excusing/dismissing any criticism of them, so I’m not sure how anyone would find that believable.

To the second, that’s a great point that you should probably internalize.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

To the first bolded point, you’ve spent the better part of four months vicious defending his government’s actions and excusing/dismissing any criticism of them, so I’m not sure how anyone would find that believable.

To the second, that’s a great point that you should probably internalize.

Lol no I haven’t.

I am for Hamas being eradicated in Gaza. Most Israelis are, even Netanyahus biggest critics in Lapid are supportive of the war. I am against the settlements and his overreaching of power amongst other things. We have people like you though who want a ceasefire and to keep Hamas in power to repeat this over and over again.

You should internalize it for someone who defends slogans that call for the genocide of Jews in Israel. But yes you are “pro peace”

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by Beninho

All war is genocide to you

You’re like a black hole of hate.