What are your thoughts on Glen Gulutzan's system?

[FireGilbert]

Things are definitely turning around. I'm just glad I didn't overreact and pull a Cali asking the mods for a user name change.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

Things are definitely turning around. I'm just glad I didn't overreact and pull a Cali asking the mods for a user name change.

"HireGilbert"?

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I talked to the guy from CapFriendly ...

the one year thing was just a placeholder as they didn't have any information.

Is the three year deal confirmed?

[DeluxeMoustache]

I like what I have seen lately.

I think any concerns in late October and early November were warranted. This team stumbled out of the gate badly. The Flames were 15-18 games deep and still having trouble gaining the offensive zone in the PP. At that point in time, it was time to address the fact that the runway was complete for the multitude of excuses - missed training camp, new system, etc. It was time to put up or shut up.

I saw in training camp what he was preaching and working on for breakouts. I like it then and was perplexed and concerned that they couldn't implement it for so long.

I quite liked the lineup decisions over the past few games and last night with Johnny's return.

I see that some people previously have repeated the same mantra of Brent's that the team isn't good enough to score off the rush and need to grind things out and disagree wholeheartedly.

I questioned Gulutzan after October, sure. The on ice product was horrible and I don't apologize for that. The identity issue from his stint in Dallas was a question. And at that time, being optimistic can be preached as patience but realistically was rooted in part in hope as well.

The team is now .500 and hopefully making their way out of the woods. But the last 12 games have gotten results. If this is the new normal, I am on board.

If he is actually doing what everybody thought Brent would do - keep the offence but shore up the D, we have something good

Lots of games to go. Looking forward to them.

[SportsJunky]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Told ya so's are imminently important to discussions.

How do we keep track of who is an idiot and who should be listened to?

That it's largely the same contingent of idiots as last time should reinforce the importance of the occasional i told ya so.

Best post in this thread.

[Mike F]

If Gulutzen's system is: "have a great goaltender", then, ya, it's finally clicking. Johnson has been absolutely lights out lately. Unfortunately, beyond Johnson and the PK (something a hot goalie will definitely aid), in the games I watched (and I tuned out of last night's game at 1-1 to watch the Westworld finale, so I'm missing the context of the offensive outburst in the second half of the game, for good or ill), I'm not seeing great growth.

I'm not seeing improved breakouts, I'm not seeing increased scoring chances, and in general I'm not seeing an improved powerplay.

I can't find any game-by-game "advanced stats", so the only objective things I can point to are:

1. In the last 12 games (their hot streak win wise, so I'm cherry picking in the most Gulutzen-friendly way), the team is -34 is SF/SA. In the 12 games before that they were -23.
2. In the last 12 games, the PP has clicked at 17% (which would be 17th in the league over a season). In the previous 12 it was at 11%. However, that's skewed by an unusually good night against Anaheim; before last night, despite the winning, it was 13% recent vs. 11% pre-streak.

Put Johnson on last year's team and I'm betting they're in the playoffs fairly easily. Put Hiller on this team, and you would be looking at a possibly historically bad team.

All that being said, I'd totally welcome someone posting some convincing stats to counter those and give me hope that the team is really on the right track as a team, and I'll happily eat crow if the team is comfortably above .500 20 games from now.

[stone hands]

this is pretty much exactly what i imagine gg's vision of what the team was from the beginning and i'm glad the players are responding and executing

if the players stepped it up and the results were not there i'd be worried but every time they've stuck to a game plan they've seemed very formidable to dominant against some really great clubs, even early on

i'm glad they've stuck with it and now that their best players look like their best players they look like they can actually win in this league

[Strange Brew]

Why the rush to judgment? This team is .500 and out of a playoff spot. Every team goes through stretches where it plays well, just check out last years Flames.

How about we see how the season plays out before panicking or counting chickens.

I am just thankful we get to watch some meaningful games.

[Gaskal]

I noticed the Ducks clogging neutral ice more to prevent Gulutzan's 5 man breakout. Glen responded by having the far-side winger drive wide instead of through the center as support, which actually made them wide open for a long stretch pass. We actually gained many zone entries this way, both carry ins and tip-in dumps.

[DeluxeMoustache]

^ I have never minded wingers selectively blowing the zone to stretch out the opposition, but the Center can't regularly do that. I like how Monny has adjusted this year.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

ER addressed the problems with your thinking on this nicely, but I wanted to point out that your description of the Flames breakout is nothing like the Oilers not giving the puck to McDavid. Unlike the Oilers, the Flames have other very useful players beyond their top scoring forward.

Part of their struggles early on, and it showed with Gaudreau's slow start as well, was the fact that he never got the puck. The last game was an excellent example of what can happen when you get your best players the puck. They have improved, but there is still work to do, I still think they are predictable as hell on the breakout. The best offense they generate is off the transition when they are scrambling and not reliant on systems at that point.

It is because they are controlling the puck better and distributing it more efficiently and accurately. The Flames have continued to have flashes of exactly this throughout the past dozen games or so that must be attributed to more than catching their opposition on their heels.

I agree with this. I said it is was improving and things were getting better. I also said there is still lots of room for improvement, which there is. This is still a work in progress.

I think that the coach has demonstrated in the past month that he has a good grasp of the personnel, and I tend to believe that he is exceptionally better equipped to make these decisions than you.

Why do you always have to be an insufferable dick and make things personal? In a thread that asks a question about your personal opinion of Gulutzan's system I give my opinion and point out the things that I don't like, and you try to turn it into some pissing contest. I think its great that you think his lines are using the talent in the best way possible. That's what fosters discussion. I just happen to think he's not, and it shows in the production of the team and many players. My opinion.

They certainly are. It strikes me as somewhat spiteful to also not extend some of the credit for this improvement to the coaches. Hell, it is even reasonable to expect the team to continue to take strides under these circumstances in the near future.

Hmmm, I've been in the camp to give Gulutzan's 20 games to get his system in place. Haven't really commented on it at all until this post. So how the hell can I be spiteful about anything in this regard? Just a little bit of an over-reaction to a posting of what I don't like about the system? I actually noted improvement, but also said there is still work to do. What, are looking for nothing but glowing reviews and Jack Adams nominations? I'll say it again. They Flames under Gulutzan have improved from the start of the season, but I still don't like the system. I think it is predictable and he doesn't use the talent as best as it could be used. It's getting better, but still needs improvement. On the bright side, they are at least looking like they are prepared for each game, which was a problem early on. The next big check-in will be at 40 games. If things aren't humming along by then, we likely have big problems. But as it is, the team is adapting, and Gulutzan has started to show he is capable of making on-the-fly adjustments, something Hartley struggled with. Baby steps has move on to learning to run.

[Aleks]

Originally Posted by Mike F

If Gulutzen's system is: "have a great goaltender", then, ya, it's finally clicking. Johnson has been absolutely lights out lately. Unfortunately, beyond Johnson and the PK (something a hot goalie will definitely aid), in the games I watched (and I tuned out of last night's game at 1-1 to watch the Westworld finale, so I'm missing the context of the offensive outburst in the second half of the game, for good or ill), I'm not seeing great growth.
.

I'm not sure what you're watching in regards to the PK. They're clearing the puck out of the zone far better than in the pass, they're preventing far more quality shots than in the past, and they're pressuring the puck carrier really well. While Johnson is doing well, the players are holding up their end of the PK quite competently...

[Erick Estrada]

It's not as exciting as Hartley's Flames a lot of the time but Gulutzan's system is more conducive to long term success. We are only seeing now the team starting to get more confidence in their new responsibilities and you take away that horrendous start the team is probably meeting expectations.

[gunnner]

Is it just more or are the Dman looking alot more comfortable and making good decisions when to join the rush over the last little bit. Our D is interesting, without them being active on the rush, I think we have a poor D corps. When they are creating offense, they are good to great. Hartleys system or lack there of got the most out of d offensively, its good to see some balance the last few games where they are still playing structured and creating offense.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by automaton 3

They look much improved as of late both on the scoreboard, and on the 'ol eyeball test.

GG to his credit has made adjustments, and they are paying off.

Now if they could just sort out the PP.

Are they, dare I say, visually better?

Spoiler!

[saXon]

Some results have been positive as of late, but I still can't stand the hook pass backwards on the PP. It pisses me off. Any momentum going forward is killed by passing it back to the trailing man. The opposing team isn't blind, they can see it a mile away and it gives them a chance to set up to stifle it at their blue line.

I've had to watch Brodie, Wideman, and Gio perform this crap all too much game in and game out. It seems the only D man willing to do the breakout pass for the puck to be carried in is Hamilton.

It needs to stop.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Why the rush to judgment? This team is .500 and out of a playoff spot. Every team goes through stretches where it plays well, just check out last years Flames.

How about we see how the season plays out before panicking or counting chickens.

I am just thankful we get to watch some meaningful games.

I'm certainly not rushing to anything.

Just pointing out recent results could suggest that sacking the guy on Halloween may have been a tad over the top.

Now they've found some success and lets see where it goes. I'm far from putting this guy up with Bob Johnson for Flames greats behind the bench.

All I've ever said from the beginning is that I see a committee of brains making decisions, and I trust they wouldn't hire a boat anchor after a process that took that long.

[Robbob]

The back pass annoys me as well but every team is doing it.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by saXon

Some results have been positive as of late, but I still can't stand the hook pass backwards on the PP. It pisses me off. Any momentum going forward is killed by passing it back to the trailing man. The opposing team isn't blind, they can see it a mile away and it gives them a chance to set up to stifle it at their blue line.

I've had to watch Brodie, Wideman, and Gio perform this crap all too much game in and game out. It seems the only D man willing to do the breakout pass for the puck to be carried in is Hamilton.

It needs to stop.

It's the length of the bump back, plus the absence of any followup pass by the trailer to an up ice man that's the issue, not the concept of the pass itself. I just think their execution has been lacking on it.

Eg. If a puck is bumped back to Hamilton on the right side and he's going at spped, he draws the defenders to that side, and if he can pass quickly enough across to JG up on the left, JG then has an easier zone entry and set up. If the defenders don't bite, Hamilton might catch some flat footed and enter himself.

But if the pass is too far back, before he has speed, or if he doesn't have speed because he's not moving forward at the time, or if he can't make the quick pass himself, the play doesn't work.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by Mike F

If Gulutzen's system is: "have a great goaltender", then, ya, it's finally clicking. Johnson has been absolutely lights out lately. Unfortunately, beyond Johnson and the PK (something a hot goalie will definitely aid), in the games I watched (and I tuned out of last night's game at 1-1 to watch the Westworld finale, so I'm missing the context of the offensive outburst in the second half of the game, for good or ill), I'm not seeing great growth.

I'm not seeing improved breakouts, I'm not seeing increased scoring chances, and in general I'm not seeing an improved powerplay.

I can't find any game-by-game "advanced stats", so the only objective things I can point to are:

1. In the last 12 games (their hot streak win wise, so I'm cherry picking in the most Gulutzen-friendly way), the team is -34 is SF/SA. In the 12 games before that they were -23.
2. In the last 12 games, the PP has clicked at 17% (which would be 17th in the league over a season). In the previous 12 it was at 11%. However, that's skewed by an unusually good night against Anaheim; before last night, despite the winning, it was 13% recent vs. 11% pre-streak.

Put Johnson on last year's team and I'm betting they're in the playoffs fairly easily. Put Hiller on this team, and you would be looking at a possibly historically bad team.

All that being said, I'd totally welcome someone posting some convincing stats to counter those and give me hope that the team is really on the right track as a team, and I'll happily eat crow if the team is comfortably above .500 20 games from now.

The team has played way better in front of Johnson and if all you see is a stud goaltender then you are not following closely enough. Johnson is steady and making the saves he needs to along with an occasional highlight save, but the Flames are making sure he can see all these shots and they have been great at sweeping away rebounds. Something they weren't doing with Elliott.

The SF/SA is VERY easily explained. We have had lots of early leads in the past 12 games and typically teams will start to fall back and protect their lead when up by 2-3 goals. And the Flames have been great at protecting leads lately.

Powerplay is also looking miles better even if they aren't producing at a much higher clip. Not sure why you'd leave out the Anaheim game though... Might as well leave out the Buffalo game too because that was an equal anomaly for PK goals against.

All 4 lines have been providing lot's of scoring chances and lots of goals. The 8 goal game in Anaheim was with 8 different skaters. The Flames have playoff level depth.

And all these games won came without our top scorer. The first game he's back we score 8 goals against a team that usually makes us their bitch. If that's not a positive sign, I don't know what is.