Israel declares war on Hamas

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by blankall

That was happening either way.

Iran is giving billions of dollars to Hamas to teach school children how to use weapons and that they will go to paradise by murdering Jews.

They're both as bad as each other.
Meanwhile on Israeli TV Israeli children sing.....

https://twitter.com/user/status/1726617311300534419

[Language]

If what Israel is doing in Gaza is considered genocide, then literally every single conflict where civilians have been killed is genocide too.

I guess when coalition troops were taking out ISIS in Mosul, and thousands of civilians died, that was genocide. Along with every single armed conflict known to mankind.

Ridiculous and completely misinformed labeling, but whatever helps some of you sleep at night.


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[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Leondros

And they have effectively solidified the creation of their next enemy even if Hamas is exterminated. Which is the young generation of the Gaza population who have lost their family and friends and seen the destruction caused by Israel. That hatred does not go away. The cycle continues...

The trouble is it really hasn't mattered what Israel does, Palestinians and the Muslim world have hated them and have attacked them every 5 or 10 years no matter what, there is no world where the dirt poor hopeless arab neighbours dont look across the valley at one of the richest countries in the west and don't resent or hate them, you don't have to scratch too deep to find a pretty major resentment of white Canada on the average dirt poor Res' here and for good reason, our native community accepts their status but trust me they aint happy about it

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Language

If what Israel is doing in Gaza is considered genocide, then literally every single conflict where civilians have been killed is genocide too.

I guess when coalition troops were taking out ISIS in Mosul, and thousands of civilians died, that was genocide. Along with every single armed conflict known to mankind.

Ridiculous and completely misinformed labeling, but whatever helps some of you sleep at night.


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Take it up with the scholars and renowned experts on genocide that believe it fits the definition, then.

Or is this similar to “from the river to the sea” where misinformation and appeals to emotion are more compelling evidence than people who have actually dedicated their lives to studying and understanding these issues?

[PepsiFree]

Even if you want to argue that it isnt genocide, and want to cite people whose opinion is actually worth something that agree with you, “If this is genocide then the Battle of Mosul is genocide” is so absurd it’s borderline satire, and completely ignores the history of the Israel-Palestine conflict.

[Language]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Take it up with the scholars and renowned experts on genocide that believe it fits the definition, then.

Or is this similar to “from the river to the sea” where misinformation and appeals to emotion are more compelling evidence than people who have actually dedicated their lives to studying and understanding these issues?

There’s just as many “scholars” and “experts” that don’t believe it constitutes genocide. Answer my question from earlier. Is every human conflict in history where thousands of civilians have been killed (literally almost every one), an act of genocide?

And regarding “from the river to the sea” - you know, when Hamas committed their slaughter on 10/7, and worldwide rallies started almost immediately with “river to the sea” chants, even before Israel launched any sort of counter offensive, it doesn’t take a genius or someone with a bit of common sense to see what that chant really stands for nowadays. What it meant 50 years ago when it was coined is irrelevant relative to how it’s being used today.


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[Zevo]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Is it your position that Israelis are not currently murdering Palestinians?

In Gaza? If so then yes.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Language

Answer my question from earlier. Is every human conflict in history where thousands of civilians have been killed (literally almost every one), an act of genocide?

It depends.
On whether or not there was a predetermined, premeditated record of intent to slaughter civilians.

There is for Gaza. There is for Rwanda.

For Mosul I'm not sure. I believe not.

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by Bagor

They're both as bad as each other.
Meanwhile on Israeli TV Israeli children sing.....

https://twitter.com/user/status/1726617311300534419

Yup that's gross. Good thing most Israelis don't agree with it.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/livebl...icits-outrage/

A clip of the song ostensibly features children evacuated from communities near the Gaza Strip, and has come under criticism both within Israel and abroad for its lyrics as well as the fact that they are sung by kids.

The video is an homage to classic Israeli song “HaReut” (“Fellowship”), written by poet Haim Gouri about the events of the 1948 Independence War. A mainstay of remembrance days, the original is a gentle ode to those lost in the horrors of war.

In Israel, some users hailed the new version as “moving” and inducing “goosebumps,” but much of the reaction was strongly negative.

“Nauseating. Are you able to do anything besides desecrate the original, sully it with Kahanism and cause Israel public relations damage?” one person commented. Others called the clip “insane” and “the epitome of bad taste.”

Gouri himself, a lifelong left-wing activist who died in 2018, would almost certainly have been unhappy with the new lyrics.

One Twitter user commented: “I truly hope the heirs… will sue you and you’ll be forced to take this thing down.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Zevo

In Gaza? If so then yes.

Israelis are murdering civilians in Gaza, though. That's just a fact and you're no better than a holocaust denier to believe Israelis aren't currently killing Palestinian civilians. This is boggling my mind.

For the record, I thought it was equally awful and evil when Hamas murdered Israelis, so I'm consistent with my dislike of civilians being killed.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Zevo

Yup that's gross. Good thing most Israelis don't agree with it.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/livebl...icits-outrage/

Yeah. Nothing like a bit of damage control when the world starts expressing their disgust.

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Israelis are murdering civilians in Gaza, though. That's just a fact and you're no better than a holocaust denier to believe Israelis aren't currently killing Palestinian civilians. This is boggling my mind.

For the record, I thought it was equally awful and evil when Hamas murdered Israelis, so I'm consistent with my dislike of civilians being killed.

I never said they weren't getting killed, but since I am of the opinion that they aren't specifically targeting Palestinians civilians, they are not being murdered.

I don't consider my son-in-law a murderer because he fights for his country and is trying to bring back hostages, some of which are friends and relatives of friends taken on Oct 7.

And for the record I think it's tragic that so many Palestinians have been killed and wish Israel would do more to keep them out of harms way.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Yeah. Nothing like a bit of damage control when the world starts expressing their disgust.

There are awful segments of any population. People can easily dig up videos of Canadians doing/saying terrible things. I hope they don't make assumptions about me as a person because of it.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by chedder

Any truth to this report or is it just typical National Post?

Says 75% of Palestinians agree Hamas should have done what they did on Oct 7. And they would overwhelmingly vote them back into power if they had to vote right now.

If there is any truth to this sympathy for Palestine won't be very high.

https://nationalpost.com/news/world/...srael-on-oct-7

Is it really surprising? After 20,000 dead, of course there is support for the guys with the guns.

I'd be interested to see the same poll conducted the day after the October 7 attacks, the numbers may look much different.

Not to say there isn't a huge amount of people in Gaza with pretty atrocious views because they've been indoctrinated with them since they were small children, just was the Taliban does in Afghanistan.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

There are awful segments of any population. People can easily dig up videos of Canadians doing/saying terrible things. I hope they don't make assumptions about me as a person because of it.

Yeah that was their national TV.

[gvitaly]

Here's a good listen if anyone cares:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1735473602806399155

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Beninho

The Palestinians have been offered a state 6 times, one would think they do not want a two state solution. Nuance is not something you have when discussing this conflict. But hey “river to the sea” is a peace slogan according to some geopolitical experts in this thread. A ceasefire keeps Hamas in power, solves absolutely nothing, while showing the world you can attack Israel and they will bow to world pressure. A ceasefire would be a Hamas victory while ensuring that more Palestinian civilians will suffer under their rule. Hamas is on deaths door but you are in favour of giving them a lifeline, almost because you are not an individual who is threatened by them. Zero solutions come with a ceasefire, an actual one may emerge with a total Hamas defeat.

Israel has killed moee UN workers than Hamas commanders.

The popularity of Hamas has tripled after Israel started their campaign of genocide, while the other Palestinian governing body has lost support in massive numbers.

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Yeah that was their national TV.

And it was quickly pulled.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Beninho

The Palestinians have been offered a state 6 times, one would think they do not want a two state solution.

The last time Palestinians accepted a 2 state solution and held a democratic election, they were instantly blockaded and met with global sanctions because Israel and other countries didn't like who they voted for. Israel still ruled over a supposedly autonomous Gaza with extremely heavy economic controls, banning even the most basic things such as building new buildings in Gaza.

Gaza was then turned into an open air prison. That's what the "offer of a 2 state solution" has been in reality.

Not to mention that q 2 state solution doesn't solve the issue of the Arab populstion in Israel being de facto 2nd class citizens.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by Itse

The last time Palestinians accepted a 2 state solution and held a democratic election, they were instantly blockaded and met with global sanctions because Israel and other countries didn't like who they voted for. Israel still ruled over a supposedly autonomous Gaza with extremely heavy economic controls, banning even the most basic things such as building new buildings in Gaza.

Gaza was then turned into an open air prison. That's what the "offer of a 2 state solution" has been in reality.

Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005 and Hamas took over in 2006 in a democratically held election. The blockade began in 2007 to stop weapons being smuggled into gaza. I would say every country with a brain would also have enacted a blockade against a group smuggling weapons to harm its civilians. There has been no two state solution that has been accepted by Hamas or since that election so no idea what you are on about. The Palestinians were offered 93% of the West Bank and this deal was rejected in 2008.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/two-state-solution

Probably was a bad idea to elect a war mongering extremist group if a functioning society is what the Palestinians want.

Arab Israelis have full rights, are in government, on the supreme court, even serve in the IDF. There are arab Israelis fighting in Gaza for the IDF as we speak. The only people who are limited to go anywhere in Israel are Jews going to the temple mount.

https://www.ynetnews.com/article/rJVoNmyCP

I wonder if these guys think they are second class citizens. Probably not. Arab Israelis have more rights than anywhere else in the middle east.