Work Done for/by Friends

[RogerWilco]

Originally Posted by 2ArmBands

Im an Electrician by trade so I get this all the time. Honestly, I hate it. In fact I find it pretty insulting when people offer me pizza and beer. If it's a small thing sure I can help out but anything above 4 hours I do expect payment. I have a wife and kids... my time is worth at least what I make during the week.

Someone above mentioned some beers and picking up the tab on a round of golf. That seems great to me that's a good way to bridge the gap. My personal favourite is trading of services. I'm happy to help my carpenter friend out if he in return helps me out with a deck project etc...

I did get burnt once so I do look pretty sour on the whole thing. I once wired an entire basement for a neighbor of mine essentially for free. He was an accountant and I asked him for some help with some tax related issues a few months later. This guy actually sent me a bill? Still can't get over this one....

I have learned the hard way that no matter what you do, most people seam to think that what they do is more valuable and takes more time, than what you do. No matter who you are or what you do.

[CaptainCrunch]

It depends on the service.

To me if its a professional service like architecture or something like that I would think they're not obligated to do it for beer or pizza.

I mean things like moving or helping out with something like a deck build, or even some car work where you pay for materials and your helping out or lending a hand to even out the burden of labor, fine.

But if you have your friend installing showers for you or toilets or renovating your kitchen, I would expect friendship or not you should be paying for that skill set.

Its the old saying, my father told me if I'm good at something never do it for free.

It also depends on time spent. If its a friend saying I need help with my computer, and your a computer guy and you have the time to help, then that would be a beer and a meal type of thing.

I've also had too many instances of friends . . . sorry ex-friends not reciprocating.

Hey dude can you come and help me fix my kids puter. Sure no problem. But then you turn around, hey electrician guy could you give me a hand with whatever. And you get the no man, I can't.

also if you want a murder for hire for free, not going to happen.

[Jason14h]

Assume you are hiring just another person at their rate/getting an estimate.

Anytime I get a buddy to do work in their field I assume I am hiring just another person up front.

I always ask before or after what do I owe for the help/work.

However, I don't think once I have had a buddy charge me full price when asked.

Either free if it's something they are coming over for : Electrician, Lawn Care, Plumber

Or discount if they have cost : Movers, Delivery/Courier, etc

NEVER take for granted they owe you free/discounted services since they are a friend.

Also, if you are getting a discount/free work make sure you are giving them referrals with other people!

[rbochan]

Be glad for a fiend, though they rarely know it matters.

[mrkajz44]

I work in tax, so I generally have the following policy:

1) Very easy work / general advice = free / 6 pack of beer - If something is very simple and I am 100% confident I can do it right pretty quickly, I am glad to help. I can also research and provide general advice for "back of the envelope" type stuff when people are considering options

2) Anything else = charge full price - As soon as it gets a little more complicated, I ask for full price. In the area of tax things can get sticky really quick and you can't half ass it or you could be in for a world of hurt down the road. Basically, if anything is a bit complicated, I know I will put way more time to make sure it's correct and its hard to give discounts for something like that

I guess its pretty similar to the painting thing: One room is fine, but the whole house requires full payment. It's either a full favour, or its full price. There are no discounts.

I try to be mindful of this on the other side too. My sister is a lawyer and my brother in law is a mechanic. I can count on them for general advice type stuff, but as soon as it becomes "real", I'm either paying full price, or using someone else.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

No matter which side of the deal you are on, or how you value the work, make sure you actually discuss how to deal with payment. Assume nothing, as that will cause the problems. Better yet, write it down in an e-mail or something.

[Swarly]

I never let anyone find out what it is I actually do. That way I can never be asked by friends to do it for free.

[Superflyer]

I work in IT and the amount of times that people call me up and expect me to help them out with anything on the computer is crazy. I mean I usually don't mind and when I go over to their house because I can't walk them through something I will get beer\dinner\etc so whatever.
The part that gets me is I have been asked by former co-workers who in this downtime have started their own consulting business to get them up and going. As soon as I say sure but there is a cost I just get crickets. It's almost like they expect me to set them all up with laptops and server and backups for free, sorry not going to happen because I know as soon as something goes wrong I am on the hook for it.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Swarly

I never let anyone find out what it is I actually do. That way I can never be asked by friends to do it for free.

So if you get umm arrested, your "Employer" will deny that you exist right?

You should be wary of the "Company" that you keep, maybe keep a "Firm" grasp of your employment information

cough "CIA" cough

[Locke]

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

I work in tax, so I generally have the following policy:

1) Very easy work / general advice = free / 6 pack of beer - If something is very simple and I am 100% confident I can do it right pretty quickly, I am glad to help. I can also research and provide general advice for "back of the envelope" type stuff when people are considering options

2) Anything else = charge full price - As soon as it gets a little more complicated, I ask for full price. In the area of tax things can get sticky really quick and you can't half ass it or you could be in for a world of hurt down the road. Basically, if anything is a bit complicated, I know I will put way more time to make sure it's correct and its hard to give discounts for something like that

I guess its pretty similar to the painting thing: One room is fine, but the whole house requires full payment. It's either a full favour, or its full price. There are no discounts.

I try to be mindful of this on the other side too. My sister is a lawyer and my brother in law is a mechanic. I can count on them for general advice type stuff, but as soon as it becomes "real", I'm either paying full price, or using someone else.

Very well said. I subscribe pretty much exactly to this.

If its 'real' there can be consequences later so you have to pay the fee, if its just general or loose then okay.

Its where it goes from knowledgeable advice to professional advice.

[puckedoff]

Originally Posted by Swarly

I never let anyone find out what it is I actually do. That way I can never be asked by friends to do it for free.

This is what I do as well, although I do it by never being gainfully employed.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by 2ArmBands

Im an Electrician by trade so I get this all the time. Honestly, I hate it. In fact I find it pretty insulting when people offer me pizza and beer. If it's a small thing sure I can help out but anything above 4 hours I do expect payment. I have a wife and kids... my time is worth at least what I make during the week.

Someone above mentioned some beers and picking up the tab on a round of golf. That seems great to me that's a good way to bridge the gap. My personal favourite is trading of services. I'm happy to help my carpenter friend out if he in return helps me out with a deck project etc...

I did get burnt once so I do look pretty sour on the whole thing. I once wired an entire basement for a neighbor of mine essentially for free. He was an accountant and I asked him for some help with some tax related issues a few months later. This guy actually sent me a bill? Still can't get over this one....

Should have sent him the money with a bill for the work you did a few months earlier.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by 2ArmBands

Im an Electrician by trade so I get this all the time. Honestly, I hate it. In fact I find it pretty insulting when people offer me pizza and beer. If it's a small thing sure I can help out but anything above 4 hours I do expect payment. I have a wife and kids... my time is worth at least what I make during the week.

Someone above mentioned some beers and picking up the tab on a round of golf. That seems great to me that's a good way to bridge the gap. My personal favourite is trading of services. I'm happy to help my carpenter friend out if he in return helps me out with a deck project etc...

I did get burnt once so I do look pretty sour on the whole thing. I once wired an entire basement for a neighbor of mine essentially for free. He was an accountant and I asked him for some help with some tax related issues a few months later. This guy actually sent me a bill? Still can't get over this one....

Heres something else to think about though:

This guy might just be a Juggalo and completely off his rocker, but depending on what you asked him and what he has to do, that bill may have been out of his hands.

I'm self-employed, so I get to pick and choose, but if he had to use company resources in some way to help you out then there exists the possibility that those resources have to be allocated to a billable client.

Some companies have more leeway on that than others, but its a distinct possibility.

[OutOfTheCube]

I don't got friends. I got family.

[Engine09]

I have 2 good friends who I will absolutely do anything for, no questions. Two other friends who are great and always insist on paying me, works out well since they basically get a much better price than any contractor.

Then there are people who basically just want #### done for free. Now that I'm incredibly busy with huge projects of my own its much easier to say no. After you've been burned you'll never make that mistake again, time is too valuable.

[CaptainYooh]

I'm gonna try and summarize three of the prevailing sentiments here:

1. Amount of work matters a lot. If it's not a lot of work, then it's OK to provide it for free to a friend and to expect it to be provided for free by a friend. Most people draw the line at a few hours of work, max.
2. What you do for living matters. Standards of one's profession may render him/her liable for the work even if it's provided for free; so, naturally, this is a deterrent to providing free work.
3. Many would rather not do ANY work for friends, free or paid.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by 2ArmBands

I did get burnt once so I do look pretty sour on the whole thing. I once wired an entire basement for a neighbor of mine essentially for free. He was an accountant and I asked him for some help with some tax related issues a few months later. This guy actually sent me a bill? Still can't get over this one....

This would be the point I would put the money for his invoice in the same envelope that I put my invoice to him inside.

[Bobblehead]

When I ask friends for help, it isn't with an expectation of free, or even a discount. It is that they will do a good job and I won't need to worry that they are cutting corners or recommending something that really doesn't need to be done.

So trust is the main thing I look for from friends, not discounts.

[V]

I only ask friends for help if I want to learn from their expertise. They come in and help for an evening, show me a few things, and I take it from there. I never use friends for just labour that I could have done myself. And I work in a profession that is of very little use to most people, so I'm more than happy to help out with grunt work when I'm asked.

They say, though, that if you're going to do a job for a family member or friend, do it either for free or double the price. If it's free they have no right to complain, and if it's double the cost they have every right to complain. Anything in between sucks.

[btimbit]

Definitely does make a difference what your career is. My brother is an electrician, he wired my basement with me. Then when he was building his new house, I dug out his basement for him. But my sister is an accountant and other than the occasional question I might have, it'd feel weird calling her up one day and going "Hey, are you free this weekend? Gotta do my taxes"