Can the Flames become successful long term without an ELITE #1C ?

[Calgary4LIfe]

First off, Monahan is well on his way to becoming an elite center, current disappointing play aside. Bennett has elite potential as well.

With that being said, I offer that often some centers aren't considered 'elite' until they actually won the cup. Not all centers, but some. Take for instance Boston. Neither Kreijc nor Bergeron were considered elite. I would read that they were both 'very good #2 centers', or that 'Bergeron is a glorified 3rd line shut-down center' at times. Boston won the cup. Now they are considered elite.

That is not to say that some didn't think one (or both) were elite before this happened, but that was not the general consensus.

As Monahan for Mayor stated - depth is more crucial.

Why has Pittsburgh only won 2 cups (and JUST won their 2nd cup) even though Crosby and Malkin have been there for 10 years? There isn't a better 1-2 punch of elite centers in the NHL. They just had abysmal depth (or a goalie that underachieved, a defence that underachieved, less than stellar wingers, etc).

Flames do have some serious center depth with Monahan, Bennett and Backlund. Add in Stajan that at this point has to be one of the better 4th line centers in the league (and playing better this year than in the last year or two), plus Jankowski who has looked good thus far as a pro - that SHOULD be enough to contend for a cup from a center perspective - assuming of course that Monahan, Bennett and Jankowski all continue to improve, which given their ages, should happen.

Monahan is just going through a rough patch - lack of training camp + new coach and systems (affects centers more than wingers, I am sure), back injury, or maybe just a 'funk' for now. Lots and lots of players have poor starts, or a rough patch within a season, or even an entire terrible season or two. I have no reason to doubt that Monahan will be an elite center.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

Bennett I think can still fall into the Claude Giroux mold. Smaller guy, but plays hard and earns his ice because he wants it more, not just because he's a better athlete.

Bennett is something like 6'1" / 200lbs. He's gonna end up bigger than Crosby, the best centre in the world.

[dissentowner]

Of all the problems the Flames may have, this is not one of them.

[IgiTang]

silly how people say Tavares, Seguin, Stamkos, etc.. are elite at the position of C but yet Monahan isn't and likely won't be.

Already a 30 goal scorer, if the NHL goes into international tourny's he'll likely be in the fold to make the team down the road.

The aforementioned have not won cups. Sure they've done some elite things, but so has Monahan.

I think this is simply a case of the grass being greener. I assure you, many teams wish they had such a young stud center in their organization.

[Dion]

Monahan reminds of a younger Toews.

[N-E-B]

Monahan is awesome. Not the last 12 or so games, but still, it's his 4th year. We know what he can do. He's not going to fall off a cliff for no reason here. He'll be back, and I have my suspicions that he's not 100% healthy right now.

[memphusk]

The slow starts by these two remind me of the Voracek and Giroux slow starts last year. ( I think it was last year.) They will get their #### together.

[FlamesFan68]

If you compare Monahan's numbers with say Ryan Getzlaf's, Monahan's are more impressive in his first 2 years in the league. I think it's still too early to tell on Monahan. He's still so young, and he can still increase his speed, probably never to McDavid speed but fast enough.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Dion

Monahan reminds of a younger Toews.

Toews was more should at every level. I really disagree with all the people who maybe this comparison

[wingmaker]

A non elite centre who scores close to 30 goals a year? Yup.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Toews was more should at every level. I really disagree with all the people who maybe this comparison

I'm not a big fan of the comparison either. I think Toews is better than Monahan at basically everything other than maybe finish. Don't think Monahan will ever have the impact of Toews. Still think he is a solid player but I think he will be more complementary if this team wants to compete for Cups. That being said you can never predict the trajectory of players but that's where I'd put my money if I had to make a bet.

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

I don't see why Bennett can't develop into an elite Center. Sure he has a lot to learn and I wouldn't even mind him at wing for a little bit sort of how Stamkos was developed but he has the potential forsure.

Monahan is the one I wouldn't be too sure about but it's a possibility.

Maybe if Bennett starts playing the 200-foot game rather than take stupid penalties in all zones. Then, he may be an effective 2nd line center. The Flames really need depth in the center position for the first two lines.

Monahan has been dismal for last season despite having scored 27 goals and he's dismal again, especially with Gaudreau struggling. He is no way a number one center on any of the good teams. His attributed success is likely due to having Gaudreau and/or Hudler. Monahan has good size, yet he doesn't use his size to his advantage. He hardly goes to the tough areas (in front of the net or in the corners) and he doesn't hit or maybe he's too slow to hit someone.

I think that the only way the Flames can get a legit first line center is to trade Bennett and a few highend prospects/draft picks in a block buster trade.

Sorry to all those who always compare Monahan to Toews or Bennett to Stamkos. It's really wishful thinking. But these two aren't elite number one centers. Both are 2nd/3rd line centers at best. Flames have always had good 3rd line centers! Unless if they made an amazing trade that got them the #1 center, they'll never be able to make whatever they draft to be the elite centerman that everyone is hoping for. It's a historical fact!

Man, this team's got a number one centerman deficiency ever since the last #1 center (Joe Niewendyk) left town. I can't see the Flames resolve this issue before Tre makes some big moves to resolve defensive woes now and for the next few seasons.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Good god, the under rating of Monahan is mind blowing around here. It amazes me just how many are also willing to call him a "bigger question mark than Bennett" despite being ahead of Bennett at the same point in their development cycles.

Really shows just how much flash or grit impact people's analysis of players.

[SOMBRI2]

Originally Posted by playmaker

Stats-wise you're absolutely right about Monahan. But when you take into consideration his wheels, faceoff ability and a compete level, I just don't see a top tier centre in him. This is the skating era and Monahan's first three steps are just not there.

Why didnt you start the thread last year?

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[cofias]

I think some in this thread are not giving Bennett enough credit. Penalty issues aside, he has been playing exceptionally well for a 20 y. o. center so far. He's making tons of smart little plays that help the team retain control of the puck, and get it back quickly when it's going in the other direction. He's even impressed me in his limited PK time.

I'm extremely hopeful that he can become that two-way guy for us, that you can always rely on to drive the play up-ice, while also having game-breaking skill and a finishing touch(or high SH%, if you prefer to call it that). Similar to what Backs is doing for us right now, except with more offensive flair.

Originally Posted by SOMBRI2

Why didnt you start the thread last year?

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Not OP obviously, but these issues have been visible for a long time. It was just much easier to ignore when Monahan and his line were producing. They were still getting outshot and outchanced in most match-ups, even though Hartley gave them few defensive starts. There were more external factors back then as well, including Hartley's "system", and the fact that Monahan was one year younger. It's all about progression, and it just doesn't seem to be there. Still, as has been said before, he's young and it's still very early in the Gulutzan era. He may buy in, start doing more of the right things away from the puck. I for one, sure hope he does.

[IgiTang]

I can't wait for the Monahan critics to have to eat some crow when he starts lighting it up again... that is all.

[FBI]

Speaking of Bennett and 200 ft game. He's been looking pretty damn good on the PK this year.

[Par]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Of all the problems the Flames may have, this is not one of them.

This has nailed it. Monahan and Bennett are very young and a very good 1-2 punch down the middle, they are not elite yet but they are very young and are knocking on the door of elitism centers.

There are some problems the Flames have now:

-There is too much dead weight on the team, half of that coming off, at the end of the year.

-New coach, takes time to learn the system.

-Johnny's contract should have been earlier and he should have not missed any training cap with the Flames.

-Monahan's injury, was unfortunate and it has derailed him a bit, had he played at the World Cup, he could have gotten off to a very good start with Flames.

-The Flames need another top 6 forward(not a top 7 or top 8 or top 9 but a top 6), preferably a top 6 RW, that can score.

-More structure on the PP, this is just shocking, how bad the PP is, even with the new coaching.

-Bennett needs more time develop.

There are probably others but I don't think the centers are the Flames problem here.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Good god, the under rating of Monahan is mind blowing around here. It amazes me just how many are also willing to call him a "bigger question mark than Bennett" despite being ahead of Bennett at the same point in their development cycles.

And the number of people who look only a player's stats is mind blowing. Players are more than how many goals they score. Outside of goal scoring, Monahan's game is mediocre to poor. Bennett has the speed, dynamism, and intensity to elevate his game in ways that would make him a better all-around player.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

I can't wait for the Monahan critics to have to eat some crow when he starts lighting it up again... that is all.

Can't believe I just read that he's a third line centre.

I guess a third line centre who scored the 6th most goals of all centres in the league in the last three years.

Some people are honestly just completely out to lunch.