2023/24 Blue Jays Off Season Thread

[ben voyonsdonc]

Atkins should be canned and James Click can be promoted.

Schneider canned. Mattingly canned. Martinez canned. Pete Walker is a good pitching coach who should be kept but he’s also part of the management and if they need a clean slate, I’d be ok with letting him go and have the new manager choose their guy.

Chapman is not going to be worth half of what he’s going to be paid. Let someone else do the repaying. Replace him with Barger/Martinez.

Merrifield’s option is way too high so let him go. He had a WAR of 0.8 - a combo of Biggio/Espinal/Schneider should help replace him.

Kiermaier is probably the hardest to replace. Varsho at CF is a good defensive replacement but you’ve got to then replace Varsho. I doubt KK is going to come back at a discount. I think this is the position that you need to fill with a bigger bat. There aren’t any free agents that are super intriguing so I think it might need to be addressed via trade.

I’m not convinced that Manoah will pitch for the Jays ever again. I don’t know if he’ll ever pitch anywhere in the majors again. Hopefully, he can get whatever it is inside his brain and body fixed to get him going in the right direction. Hopefully Tiedemann can have an outstanding off season and force the team to bring him into the rotation.

The rest of the starting rotation is set but they are also a year older so that is a bit concerning.

As I mentioned in a different thread, I would heavily pursue re-signing Hicks. His stuff is too good to let walk away. While the bullpen was excellent this year…I’m not completely confident that, even with a lot of the same players, that they’ll be able to duplicate their success. I think Richards is closer to the guy he was before this season than he was before he went on the DL. Maybe he was burned out and the off-season will do him some good but I wouldn’t bet on him. Swanson also seemed to get beaten up and hopefully can get back to his early season self. Romano can be an adventure if he is under rested, over rested, or pitching in a non save situation.

[KelVarnsen]

You can’t bring back Mattingly either. He’s the bench coach he was involved in the discussion.

Where was Walker on the decision? If he was in favour of the move then he has to go. The trust would be broken.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by KelVarnsen

You can’t bring back Mattingly either. He’s the bench coach he was involved in the discussion.

Where was Walker on the decision? If he was in favour of the move then he has to go. The trust would be broken.

Yeah. Mattingly was an utter failure today and the whole season. He didn’t help Schneider make good decisions. He didn’t help the team with hitting. He didn’t help Vlad play a good (or even decent) first base. The team was markedly worse in every area that he was supposed to help them with this year. I’d probably fire him even before firing Schneider.

[KelVarnsen]

I don’t know about Varsho. He’s great defensively but his bat is so very lacking. Without a serious upgrade to the offence to cover for his bat then he has to go.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

The lack of feel for starting pitchers has been Schneider's achilles heel all season. It was especially pronounced in this series. Pulling your starter after 3 innings when he hasn't given up a run? WTF???

That doesn't make sense even in bizarro baseball world.

You aren't wrong. Truly.

But this game was a microcosm of the entire year from Day 1 and Manoha melting down IMO.

Schnider got snotbubbled by an assumed Cy Young candidate in game 1 of the year......problem is that it was own guy.

It did not feel right from that day on and the way it ended almost feels like it was expected.

[Galakanokis]

Schneider is not new to yanking pitchers early. It was a problem right around the all star break when the relievers were taxed. Kukuchi and Berrios had issues with it this season. Those decisions are literally what you hire the manager to do. If he is not making those decisions what the hell are you doing?

Lots of questions. Lots of potential as well. Sounds familiar.

[KelVarnsen]

The comparison between the Flames and Jays seasons is depressingly accurate. Both teams felt miserable all season. Both teams were off.

The Flames off season brought a new energy, while the season hasn’t started yet it does already feel better.

Hopefully the Jays can do the same.

[Strange Brew]

The Jays made the playoffs, finishing top 6 in a 15 team league. Before you make a massive overhaul, you better at least understand what is working.

[KelVarnsen]

Some of those 15 teams were truly terrible.

The pitching was a strength. The defence was a strength. The hitting was subpar to good but more subpar than good.

The game management and coaching was piss poor.

It’s easy to see where they need to improve.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by KelVarnsen

Some of those 15 teams were truly terrible.

The pitching was a strength. The defence was a strength. The hitting was subpar to good but more subpar than good.

The game management and coaching was piss poor.

It’s easy to see where they need to improve.

Yeah, I don't think it's actually that complicated.

1) get a competent DH
2) get a manager who can make reasonable decisions around pitching usage
3) one bat for the outfield to replace Varsho

Those 3 things are probably enough to win a couple of series. Vasho and Belt were a combined 0 for 13, and that's with Varsho getting credited a sacrifice bunt he wasn't trying for. 3 more hits over the two games would be batting 0.230, and would likely have them moving on if they let Berrios pitch 5 innings.

Then it's tinkering. Probably replace one or both Merrifield/Chapman with Biggio/Schneider et al. Resign some relievers (I'd like to keep the 100 mph Hicks).

[Galakanokis]

Saw it on twitter a number of times and Kel mentions it earlier. This team was just not fun to watch. I liked the first 10 games or so but then it just got really stale. You would be hard pressed to find fans that loved this team. They really weren't likeable as a whole.

They had no swagger as Kel mentioned. Not sure if that was just confidence in general or management neutered them after the past couple of seasons.

[ForeverFlameFan]

I’d like KK back as the 9th batter. But as mentioned, might be too costly. Some team is gonna want him for his ridiculous speed and great outfielding.

Bring back Teoscar. I think he’s the perfect #4 batter.

I wish we hadn’t traded Moreno and Gurriel for Varsho but it is what it is.

[Inferno]

First change made but it wasn't by their own hand.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1709931979892985987

[cKy]

You cant fire me, i quit!

I hated him at 3rd base. I'd yell at him at least once a game so I'm glad he's gone. Burn it down!

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by cKy

You cant fire me, i quit!

I hated him at 3rd base. I'd yell at him at least once a game so I'm glad he's gone. Burn it down!

How often did they make it to third to even get angry at them? Lol

[Roof-Daddy]

Well the good news pretty much all the pitching is slated to be back.

The only free agent of note is Hicks in the bullpen.

Gausman, Berrios, Bassitt, Kikuchi are all durable so the bulk of the rotation should be solid again (although Berrios and Kikuchi were so bad in 2022 that you do have to be concerned they might regress a bit). There is also a chance Manoah bounces back, plus they also have Tiedemann knocking on the door.

The bullpen is really good and has insane depth, as we didn't see much from guys like Pop and Pearson this season who have the stuff to be real good BP arms, not to mention prospect relievers like Cooke, Danner, Juenger, Zulueta and Brock are all right there in the upper minors with crazy good arms and stuff.

The D might take a hit losing Chapman and Kiermaier though, but they IMO should be adding a power bat for LF and move Varsho to fulltime CF. Hopefully Springer, Vladdy and Kirk and can bounce back offensively, just that alone would make a massive difference to the offense. I don't anyone on the planet would have picked Vlad and Springer to have below .800 OPS's and Kirk sub .700 OPS. Just crazy.

[Roof-Daddy]

SP - Gausman
SP - Berrios
SP - Bassitt
SP - Kikuchi
SP -

Fill in with Manoah, Tiedemann, Ryu or some other FA signing

CL - Romano
SU - Green
SU - Mayza
MR - Swanson
MR - Garcia
MR - Richards
MR - Cabrera
MR - Francis

Depth for days with Pearson, Pop, Cimber, Danner, Cooke, White, Zulueta, Juenger, Brock

C - Kirk / Jansen
DH -
1B - Vladdy
2B -
3B -
SS - Bo
LF -
CF - Varsho
RF - Springer

Lots of work to do here obviously. Biggio will likely factor in there somewhere, and Espinal too maybe. Not all of Schneider, Barger, Orelvis, Clement, Horwitz will make the jump but I imagine one or two might. The rest need to be FA or trade additions.

[activeStick]

Yeah. I'd get rid of Schneider, say goodbye to Chapman and Belt, bring Hicks back. I'd build around Bo and Vladdy. Vladdy had a bad year but really only by Vladdy standards. He's going to bounce back in a massive way next season. So disappointed with this season.

EDIT: Oh, bring Ohtani to Toronto! Play him next season only as a batter and see how he heals/recovers from his injury. Hopefully he ends up pitching again in 2 years but if he doesn't, you still have an elite hitter.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Yeah, I don't think it's actually that complicated.

1) get a competent DH

Belt was a 858 OPS guy which was a long ways ahead of anyone else. His late season injury and only playing 103 games were a bit light. On one hand the team put more emphasis on contact and the lack of power is lamented. But one guy who is a walk, extra base hit strikeout guy is implied as incompetent. Although a deeper dive is likely needed when this 2 hitter has 19 home runs and only 43 batted in. RBI has been tossed aside like batting average as a waste of time stat for old geezers. But situation slugging likely was not great. A player who is 2 for 5 and hits 2 out doubles with no one on and strands 7 guys on base looks fine ftom OPS but did less for the offence than a guy who goes 1 for 5 and drives in 2 with his base hit.

If you can get a younger less injury prone Belt type plus a lefty masher to fill that role that would be better though.

A lot of guys had down years offensively but the overall lineup wss pretty lean and it needs to be improved. Bo, Vlad, and Springer are not a good enough trio to carry a top level offence. Need at least one more impact every day bat to be added.

[howard_the_duck]

I don't see them doing it, but Atkins should be the fall guy. Read between the lines from the players and Schneider yesterday, the call on Berrios came from upstairs.

Coupled with the awful deal for Varsho (yes, I stand by that) and other botched trades (Mitch White), and a complete inability to plug the glaring holes, it's time for a fresh look.

Tinkering with a hitting coach and minor personnel moves ain't gonna cut it. Big changes to the lineup are needed and have been for two years.