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Old 02-23-2022, 09:02 PM   #21
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Without dooming the world to hundreds of millions if not billions dead, not much; the West and China could cripple Russia economically, but that only would stop Putin if those around Putin stops Putin from the economic pain.
Why would China want to take part in that? They're likely extremely annoyed at Putin, but are they going to hurt their own country to significantly sanction Russia? I doubt it. As it stands, NATO can hurt Russia economically, but not all that badly in the short term. Russia has relatively low debt and has become less reliant on goods from the West in recent years, so the effects of sanctions might take a while to really be felt.
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Old 02-23-2022, 09:16 PM   #22
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Without dooming the world to hundreds of millions if not billions dead, not much; the West and China could cripple Russia economically, but that only would stop Putin if those around Putin stops Putin from the economic pain.
I think Putin has considered those costs, especially after sanctions did virtually nothing to prevent him from taking Crimea.

China taking Taiwan is far scarier IMO.
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Old 02-23-2022, 09:18 PM   #23
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Why would China want to take part in that? They're likely extremely annoyed at Putin, but are they going to hurt their own country to significantly sanction Russia? I doubt it. As it stands, NATO can hurt Russia economically, but not all that badly in the short term. Russia has relatively low debt and has become less reliant on goods from the West in recent years, so the effects of sanctions might take a while to really be felt.
Honestly, doubtful, but if I was to make an argument, sure they already hate Russia, but it could be a good play for them to cripple Russia economically and get them out as a player in the middle east and extend their economic investment and trade power they've been building in the region. Also from my understanding, while trade with China is a huge part of Russia's economy, it's a really small part of China's economy so it wouldn't be much pain.
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Old 02-23-2022, 09:18 PM   #24
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Putin must have the smallest dick in the world man. Lets hope those Javelin's are all they're cracked up to be.
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Old 02-23-2022, 09:34 PM   #25
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Honestly, doubtful, but if I was to make an argument, sure they already hate Russia, but it could be a good play for them to cripple Russia economically and get them out as a player in the middle east and extend their economic investment and trade power they've been building in the region. Also from my understanding, while trade with China is a huge part of Russia's economy, it's a really small part of China's economy so it wouldn't be much pain.
Putin has spent the last several years kissing China's ass, not only are they not annoyed they would have no doubt sanctioned this
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Old 02-23-2022, 09:36 PM   #26
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So what does the world do? Do they sort of just let Ukraine go? I’m sort of curious. Do they go all out to defend against them? Is there going to be a significant war out of this?

Russia is basically threatening nukes. How do you handle that?
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Old 02-23-2022, 09:45 PM   #27
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Simple, bullet to the brain = 1 less problem
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Old 02-23-2022, 09:49 PM   #28
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They have to. Western economic sanctions are not the threat they once were. Secure relations with China and what do they give a #### about UN sanctions for? Russia will take what it wants, China will follow suit in the SCS and...but boy there will be some harah rhetoric.
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Old 02-23-2022, 09:51 PM   #29
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If they let Ukraine go, the Western Powers name will be worth crap to be honest.



The Russian's probably have this cold, I'm interested in knowing what's happening with the Russian Navy right now in terms of deployment of Submarines. The main logistical supply chain goes across the Ocean, and there's no way that the Russian's want to give the American's a chance to forward deploy.



But if the Russian's control the air over Ukraine, and control of the Crimea, Logistics has to come a long way by ground and that doesn't allow large quantities of arms food troops and ammunition.


I have to admit, I totally misread this one, I expected that Putin would threaten and back off or never give the go order.


We've seen wars in the middle east, wars in South East Asia. But this is a new and terrifying scenario where I expect that civilian casualties will be very high.



While I still don't believe that China will invade Taiwan as they don't have the sea and air lift capability for a oppossed invasion, its more likely that if China's going to do something with American attention on the Ukraine its to go to the Spratley's as the other 6 nations that claim them don't have the main power to defend them.


While I don't think this is the opening shots of WW3, because I think the American's will probably back off except for Logistics support. I think this is going to be a significant failure for American power in the region.
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Old 02-23-2022, 09:52 PM   #30
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Simple, bullet to the brain = 1 less problem

Not as easy as it sounds.
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Old 02-23-2022, 09:53 PM   #31
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So what does the world do? Do they sort of just let Ukraine go? I’m sort of curious. Do they go all out to defend against them? Is there going to be a significant war out of this?

Russia is basically threatening nukes. How do you handle that?
At this point, Ukraine needs to make the conflict as bloody as possible while the international community levies heavy sanctions quickly. All the squabbling countries will take time to come up with something. Dragging the conflict out as long as possible will give the Russians pause when the bodies start rolling home in a war that is domestically unpopular, coupled of crushing economic sanctions that will affect regular Russian ppl + non-Putin leaders may force Putin back to the table.

If that play doesn't work, its a matter of how much the Europeans are willing to let Putin take, and what their appetite is to get their own hands dirty. The Germans and lots of other countries seem to be willing to write Ukraine off so I'm not optimistic about that. If the price isn't high enough for Putin then the Baltics will be next.
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Old 02-23-2022, 09:53 PM   #32
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Well then.

####.
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Old 02-23-2022, 09:55 PM   #33
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I hope some Russians get to die for their country.
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Old 02-23-2022, 09:57 PM   #34
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At this point, Ukraine needs to make the conflict as bloody as possible while the international community levies heavy sanctions quickly. All the squabbling countries will take time to come up with something. Dragging the conflict out as long as possible will give the Russians pause when the bodies start rolling home in a war that is domestically unpopular, coupled of crushing economic sanctions that will affect regular Russian ppl + non-Putin leaders may force Putin back to the table.

If that play doesn't work, its a matter of how much the Europeans are willing to let Putin take, and what their appetite is to get their own hands dirty. The Germans and lots of other countries seem to be willing to write Ukraine off so I'm not optimistic about that. If the price isn't high enough for Putin then the Baltics will be next.

If the Russian's take the sky's the Ukraine military won't last long. And the Russians are different, militarily they're willing to take on a bloody war. It took a long time for the cost of blood to force the Soviets home in Afghanistan. Their whole culture is based around bloody conflict. And frankly Putin won't care.


Plus everyone loves a winner at home, if Putin flattens Ukraine fairly quickly then he won't see much opposition at home.
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Old 02-23-2022, 09:57 PM   #35
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They have to. Western economic sanctions are not the threat they once were. Secure relations with China and what do they give a #### about UN sanctions for? Russia will take what it wants, China will follow suit in the SCS and...but boy there will be some harah rhetoric.
If they make concessions for the thing that makes Russia the most money the sanctions don’t really work.
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Old 02-23-2022, 09:58 PM   #36
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Is he crazy enough to retaliate with nukes if anyone steps in?
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Old 02-23-2022, 09:59 PM   #37
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https://twitter.com/user/status/1496709533661646850

If true, WTF
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Old 02-23-2022, 09:59 PM   #38
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I'm interested in knowing what's happening with the Russian Navy right now in terms of deployment of Submarines. The main logistical supply chain goes across the Ocean, and there's no way that the Russian's want to give the American's a chance to forward deploy.
Not just the Russian Navy, I've been curious about the NATO Navys' for a bit.

I know a couple of people in the Canadian Navy, and weird deployments have been happening over the last month... I have no details, only, wtf they went out already? And one was able to say where they were going and it was to Europe, and that ship doesn't usually go to Europe from their FB posts.

So I suspect, there is a lot more NATO Naval buildup/patrols than we know in Europe.
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Old 02-23-2022, 09:59 PM   #39
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Is he crazy enough to retaliate with nukes if anyone steps in?
Not sure but he specifically said he will retaliate in a way “they haven’t experienced before” or something like that.
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Old 02-23-2022, 10:02 PM   #40
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Not sure but he specifically said he will retaliate in a way “they haven’t experienced before” or something like that.
That doesn't narrow it down much. Anywhere from nukes to throwing puppies.
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