PGT: President-Elect Donald J Trump

[Senator Clay Davis]

I feel compelled to ask this question, but zamler, what did you think of the W Bush administration?

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I feel compelled to ask this question, but zamler, what did you think of the W Bush administration?

Probably the worst in my lifetime. The CIA flat out lied to the American public about WMDs and used it as a justification for going into Iraq. Now the CIA is saying the Russians tried to influence the election although people need to read the entire statement not just the headlines.

However, there were also some disagreements about the CIA findings, particularly relating to the extent of Kremlin's involvement in the operation. According to the report, the intelligence officials said that the Russian actors who passed the hacked information to WikiLeaks were "one step" removed from Moscow.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

And the blatant hypocrisy of Trump to suggest that the vote is rigged if he loses...but he is ok with it if he wins?

Zamler...even you can see the ethical deficit here?

(And for the love of god don't reply with a Democratic example as a deflection)

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by zamler

Probably the worst in my lifetime. The CIA flat out lied to the American public about WMDs and used it as a justification for going into Iraq. Now the CIA is saying the Russians tried to influence the election although people need to read the entire statement not just the headlines.

So does it not worry you even slightly that Trump is going down almost the exact same trajectory as W? This time it figures to be Iran, but considering the people he's putting into military and intelligence positions, the all but guarantee Pence is running the day to day ops, and the increases in military spending and the big gains defense stocks have made since Nov 8...faking intel to go into Iran is definitely going to be a very possible if not likely outcome.

I think the Russians simply wanted to humiliate America by showing what a backwards, borderline banana republic it really is. In that regard, mission accomplished.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

And the blatant hypocrisy of Trump to suggest that the vote is rigged if he loses...but he is ok with it if he wins?

Zamler...even you can see the ethical deficit here?

(And for the love of god don't reply with a Democratic example as a deflection)

I see it perfectly. The Dems, Repubs, Clinton, Obama and Trump are massive hypocrites and say whatever suits their agenda at the time. The biggest hypocrite in all of this is Obama he thought Hillary had it in the bag so he spouted off about how dangerous and unpatriotic Trump was to suggest the elections might be rigged. Now that Hillary lost suddenly it's all hands on deck to investigate hacking. Give me a break.

I can say the above because I don't favour one party over the other. I've said it before I believe the American system is too far gone for any one person to come in and change it. Obama made grand promises and ended up getting dragged down by the machine and became the very thing he campaigned against. The same thing will happen to Trump. Only reason I prefer Trump over Hillary is at least Trump might be different, Hillary was and is the most dyed in the wool corrupt politician there is her as President would change absolutely nothing. No chance.

From what I've read Russia took the same view they preferred an unknown in Trump. As for them hacking, they may have done it maybe not. Either way that doesn't change the substance of what was released by Wikileaks would people really rather have all that info never released? It's a sad state of things when we have to rely on hacking for the truth to come out, think about how profound the info released by Snowden has been. Before he leaked all the info to the press the Obama administration flat out denied the government was mining and storing data on every American.

So excuse me if I don't trust anything the CIA says.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Originally Posted by zamler

I see it perfectly. The Dems, Repubs, Clinton, Obama and Trump are massive hypocrites and say whatever suits their agenda at the time. The biggest hypocrite in all of this is Obama he thought Hillary had it in the bag so he spouted off about how dangerous and unpatriotic Trump was to suggest the elections might be rigged. Now that Hillary lost suddenly it's all hands on deck to investigate hacking. Give me a break.

I can say the above because I don't favour one party over the other. I've said it before I believe the American system is too far gone for any one person to come in and change it. Obama made grand promises and ended up getting dragged down by the machine and became the very thing he campaigned against. The same thing will happen to Trump. Only reason I prefer Trump over Hillary is at least Trump might be different, Hillary was and is the most dyed in the wool corrupt politician there is her as President would change absolutely nothing. No chance.

From what I've read Russia took the same view they preferred an unknown in Trump. As for them hacking, they may have done it maybe not. Either way that doesn't change the substance of what was released by Wikileaks would people really rather have all that info never released? It's a sad state of things when we have to rely on hacking for the truth to come out, think about how profound the info released by Snowden has been. Before he leaked all the info to the press the Obama administration flat out denied the government was mining and storing data on every American.

So excuse me if I don't trust anything the CIA says.

I see it perfectly. The Dems,

It took you five words...to deflect to the Dems and give Trump a pass. Have you read what has gone on beyond wikileaks?

https://www.engadget.com/2016/10/31/...a-bank-report/

And be very sceptical about the 'it could have been spam'...just because there is a possibility of a benign explanation doesn't make it so.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

It took you five words...to deflect to the Dems and give Trump a pass.

That's really all you see? Did you stop reading when you saw the word Dems? How did you miss that I called Trump a massive hypocrite...odd.

https://www.engadget.com/2016/10/31/...a-bank-report/

Update: The New York Times' sources say that "none" of the investigations thus far have turned up any evidence of a link between Trump and the Russian government.

I don't think you read the article.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Fun little coincidence...

Philip Bump ‏@pbump 2h2 hours ago
Incidentally the last time Trump held a press conference, 136 days ago, was when he encouraged Russia to hack Clinton's emails.

https://twitter.com/pbump/status/807616933847855104

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by zamler

That's really all you see? Did you stop reading when you saw the word Dems? How did you miss that I called Trump a massive hypocrite...odd.
I don't think you read the article.

You know, if you ignore the obvious ones

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by New Era

Do you have more details to this? The article is behind the WSJ paywall. I'm going to assume the article is focusing on the concept of moving the offices of Federal agencies out of Washington and to other cities around the country, thinking it will reduce costs and lessen bureaucracy? Interesting idea, just not sure how it would change anything. The problem isn't location, its States not recognizing federal management of resources, and then federation being poorly implemented. Americans don't trust government because it doesn't work. It doesn't work because they don't understand how federated services are supposed to work. They can play three card monty and move stuff around, but the base problem still exists.

hmm try this.. when i get to the article from google i can read the whole thing

https://www.google.ca/search?q=feder...w=1906&bih=946

Donald Trump pledged to rebuild America’s troubled inner cities, “drain the swamp,” and restore Americans’ confidence in their government. The president-elect can deliver on these promises by moving federal government agencies out of the nation’s capital and closer to the citizens they serve in cities like Detroit, Cleveland or Milwaukee. Mr. Trump can begin by relocating two federal agencies that are currently looking for new headquarters in the Washington, D.C., metro area: the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Labor Department.
The FBI’s current headquarters, the J. Edgar Hoover Building, was built in 1975. It is now too small to meet the FBI’s needs, and it requires major repairs. The specifications for a new FBI headquarters include 2.1 million square feet of office space with access to adequate transportation. The construction budget alone is about $2.5 billion.
The new location for the FBI headquarters is expected to be announced this month. There are currently three locations under consideration. Two sites, Greenbelt and Landover, are in suburban Maryland. A third possible site, Springfield, is in suburban Virginia.
The Labor Department is also looking for a new headquarters to replace its 40-year-old building currently located on Constitution Avenue in Washington. The plan is to construct a new building on one of three possible sites within the district. The new building could be as large as 1.4 million square feet and, if costs are similar to those proposed by the FBI, the building budget alone would exceed $1 billion.

[photon]

Yeah usually if you google the title of the article and click through Google it will show the article

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Drak

The latest candidate for SoS is the CEO of Exxon Mobil

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUSKBN13Z01E



More Russian ties and a huge conflict of interest to boot.

Not a candidate. He's apparently the guy. And John Bolton will be the deputy secretary. And Rex got the job because of Condi Rice and Robert Gates. So yeah, Trump = the third Bush administration. Sure was fun watching the Trump cult bash the Bush years all election long. Now they can enjoy more of it.

[direwolf]

And so begins Trump's war with the CIA. I'm sure this will go well.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/1...hacking-232419

In an extraordinary rebuke of the intelligence agencies he will soon lead as president, Donald Trump broke with his predecessor on Friday and rejected the conclusion that Russia had sought to help him by meddling in the U.S. election.

"These are the same people that said Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction," the Trump transition team said in a unsigned press release. "The election ended a long time ago in one of the biggest Electoral College victories in history. It's now time to move on and "Make America Great Again.'"

In addition to the Democratic pressure campaign, several Republican committee and subcommittee chairmen have promised to hold hearings on the cyberattacks.

The Washington Post reported Thursday night that Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman John McCain (R-Ariz.) was readying his own investigation, “working closely” with Sen. Richard Burr (R-N.C.), who chairs the Senate Intelligence Committee.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by zamler

I see it perfectly. The Dems, Repubs, Clinton, Obama and Trump are massive hypocrites and say whatever suits their agenda at the time. The biggest hypocrite in all of this is Obama he thought Hillary had it in the bag so he spouted off about how dangerous and unpatriotic Trump was to suggest the elections might be rigged. Now that Hillary lost suddenly it's all hands on deck to investigate hacking. Give me a break.

I can say the above because I don't favour one party over the other. I've said it before I believe the American system is too far gone for any one person to come in and change it. Obama made grand promises and ended up getting dragged down by the machine and became the very thing he campaigned against. The same thing will happen to Trump. Only reason I prefer Trump over Hillary is at least Trump might be different, Hillary was and is the most dyed in the wool corrupt politician there is her as President would change absolutely nothing. No chance.

From what I've read Russia took the same view they preferred an unknown in Trump. As for them hacking, they may have done it maybe not. Either way that doesn't change the substance of what was released by Wikileaks would people really rather have all that info never released? It's a sad state of things when we have to rely on hacking for the truth to come out, think about how profound the info released by Snowden has been. Before he leaked all the info to the press the Obama administration flat out denied the government was mining and storing data on every American.

So excuse me if I don't trust anything the CIA says.

1) HA!

2) So your rallying against the system involves the election of someone who embodies the system. Trump isn't changing anything, if nothing else he is acting in a manner which promotes secrecy and big business more than anyone else who has come before him, including the republican demi-god in the demented president, Reagan. He publicly called for the execution of Snowden, has appointed CEOs of major corporations and bankers to every high level position in the white house, and has his entire campaign based upon nationalistic half-truths and lies. The fact you support him shows me that you don't think about issues as much as you support a political party. Hillary Clinton is the least inspiring candidate that I can recall (including John Kerry), but even then, she at least had policies that make some economic sense... Trump on the other hand is intent on cutting taxes to him and his friends/donors (who seem to be put into positions of power ie Linda McMahon). Domestically and internationally this election rings of the death knell of the republic and makes the United States look eerily similar to the banana republics they helped create.

[zamler]

You have a serious reading comprehension problem.

I believe the American system is too far gone for any one person to come in and change it. Obama made grand promises and ended up getting dragged down by the machine and became the very thing he campaigned against. The same thing will happen to Trump. Only reason I prefer Trump over Hillary is at least Trump might be different

What part of that is beyond your understanding?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by zamler

I can say the above because I don't favour one party over the other.

You are literally one of the most partisan posters I've seen in this thread. Your criticism of the American political system is apt, but let's not pretend we don't have bias, please.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Well the house and senate being Republican will give Trump much less obstruction to deal with than Obama. So he is empowered to make more institutional changes that Obama was ever able to. (Unless the sane republicans realize what they are enabling)

And our reading of your text is fine. I pointed out the exceptional ethical poverty of Trump howling about the system being rigged (unless he won) and then dismissing actual evidence of issues (that are aligned to is benefit).

I ask for your opinion on Trumps exceptional attitude without dragging the Dems into the response. And you say that Trump is a hypocrite but not as much as the Dems and that the whole system sucks and that you and Russia prefer a wildcard.

You and Putin better be careful what you wish for.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

You and Putin better be careful what you wish for.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Originally Posted by zamler

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by New Era

zamler, you are aware of the massive difference between Trump's claims of "voter fraud" resulting in a rigged election, and a foreign power using cyber attacks in changing the outcome of an election? Trump made those claims with zero evidence to support the claim. There is abundant evidence that a foreign government was meddling in the election process and broke laws in doing so. Massive difference!

As far as I can tell, we have a report from the 3rd party security firm who investigated the hacking saying that it was "probably Russian", with minimal supporting documentation and this "leaked" CIA document.

I don't know what counts for burden of proof in your world, but that is roughly akin to a body showing up outside your door one day and then getting pinned for being a murderer.