I liked TMP, I thought it was a beautifully shot movie for the time. But it was a very cold film. There was none of the humor and closeness of the crew that we were so used to coming after years of no Star Trek.
It was a Star Trek story that Gene Roddenberry always wanted to tell with no malicious enemy and a intellectual mystery to solve.
It was a shame that he was pushed to the side after this, but he kept pushing the same time travel story where the last scene was always going to be Spock standing on a grassy knoll with a rifle ensuring the death of Kennedy.
Eventually that lead to Roddenberry being pushed aside to an advisor role where nobody listened to his advice.
Not really.
Look, Roddenberry was a visionary but he was also a certifiable lunatic, a coke-fiend, a drunk and whole host of other things.
Sometimes, and it often sucks, you have to honor 'The Creator' but move him aside for the sake of the creation.
Roddenberry was losing it towards the end there.
For the Franchise it was probably for the best...
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1) TMP Rules and the older I get the more I love it
2) My stance on Roddenberry as Diet L Ron Hubbard gets me thrown out of a lot of Star Trek spaces online. I hate the hero worship great bird of the galaxy stuff. The dude was ####ter than the average bear and that's saying a lot in Hollywood.
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Originally Posted by Locke
Thats why Flames fans make ideal Star Trek fans. We've really been taught to embrace the self-loathing and extreme criticism.
Roddenberry had great ideals and hopes for humanity that he himself was never going to live up to.
I think comparing him to Hubbard isn't fair. I think worshiping him as a peak humanitarian that we should aspire to be like would also be crazy. I think aspiring for the future he saw for humanity is fine. Except the future space army's admiralty. Don't aspire to be that.
He did qualify Roddenberry as 'Diet' L. Ron is alright....still a little harsh but I get it.
Roddenberry very similarly created a 'Cult of Personality' that was really difficult. All you have to do is listen to the complaints of all of his writers. He'd trash their work, re-write it.
He created a wonderful thing, but then its like he spent all of his time and dedication attempting to destroy it and the teams working around him were doing their best to keep it going.
The frustration of the writers around him was palpable.
I love Star Trek, but I dont believe that requires me to worship at the altar of Roddenberry. That guy was a straight up lunatic at times.
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Roddenberry had great ideals and hopes for humanity that he himself was never going to live up to.
I think comparing him to Hubbard isn't fair. I think worshiping him as a peak humanitarian that we should aspire to be like would also be crazy. I think aspiring for the future he saw for humanity is fine. Except the future space army's admiralty. Don't aspire to be that.
They way he was always out to make a buck and transitioned from TV writer into pseudo religious humanist through the 70s and the 80s though isn't totally dissimilar of a pattern. Sure, I'm making somewhat hyperbolic statement for effect, but it's not as out there as it seems on first glance imo.
I do also believe that philosophically the Gene that created Star Trek, and the Gene that lived off Star Trek and speaking engagements etc after Star Trek aren't really the same person ideologically. Which is fine, I'm not the same person I was 15 years ago either. I just think common knowledge of Gene has sort of become a part of his own self mythologizing than reality.
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Originally Posted by Locke
Thats why Flames fans make ideal Star Trek fans. We've really been taught to embrace the self-loathing and extreme criticism.
My favourite feud is the one with Harlan Ellison who wrote "City on the Edge of Forever". Ellison released the original, but also tells the tale of Rodenburry being a giant dick. Obviously it is one sided, but even decades later you can feel the seething anger jump out of the page, and Ellison has an incredible way with words so it's fun too.
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For thirty years I’ve had to listen to others shoot off their faces about how they saved “City.” How they rewrote this and trimmed that and suffered oh so awfully with the irresponsible Ellison.[1] For thirty years I’ve slapped back only when they got me too angry to lay back…or when they got within arm’s reach. And now, with Shatner’s pinheaded memoir, and that laughable “biography” by David Alexander that tried to make Roddenberry look like ####in’ Prometheus…well…I let myself get talked into doing the original, unexpurgated, you-read-it-and-judge-for-yourself teleplay, with additional material, and alternate versions and various treatments…and this is my final word on the matter. If it makes money, that’s terrific: I deserve it. (A lot more than the creeps who’ve fed off my work for three decades.) And if it doesn’t…yeah, well, what are the odds all the brain-damaged Trekkies wanted to hear the truth anyhow?
Gene wrote lyrics for Alexander Courage's Star Trek theme, unbeknownst to Courage, so Gene could entitle himself to half the royalties. Courage never wrote for Star Trek again.
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Originally Posted by Locke
Thats why Flames fans make ideal Star Trek fans. We've really been taught to embrace the self-loathing and extreme criticism.
Everybody who works for a living needs to watch this annually, to be reminded that they should do nothing for free.
Its a good rant.
Another element of that though should be that not only should writers be adamant about getting paid, but their own industries, their own studios and their own colleagues are cutting each others' throats to horn in on Royalties to get paid.
Look...Gene was a POS at times for doing 'secret re-writes' just so he could get his name on the script and scam a portion of the royalties away from his own team members.
Ironic that he devised the Utopia where money no longer matters...
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I just watched Generations and much like Data I have conflicting emotions. I know nothing about the crew of TNG, this was the first thing I've ever seen them in so I'm not as invested in their characters right now as I've never spent time with them. I've just spent 6 movies getting to know the original crew, and enjoying their friendships and stories. I did enjoy what I saw of the new crew, and I'm excited to see where their arcs go in the next 3 films, hopefully by the end I will feel about them as I did the original crew. I just don't know their individual personalities right now and how they interact with each other. Probably doesn't help that I didn't watch the TV show.
The thing that I really didn't like is how they killed Kirk. I didn't like that, Kirks the man. I also didn't like how he went out either, if he were to die it should have been so much more epic. I'm not convinced this villain was worthy of the kill.
And the nexus, if no one would ever want to leave, why did Kirk and Picard both willingly leave? Also I thought the whole movie would be an adventure with the 2 captains, I didn't realize they would only meet near the end.
Generations is poor. First contact will always be the best NExt Gen movie, but if you haven't ever seen any of the episodes, it's going to be very hard to fully comprehend. At least watch The Best of Both Worlds Part 1 and 2, if nothing else.
I still love the Enterprise crashing onto the planet though. Fantastic sequence.
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Generations is poor. First contact will always be the best NExt Gen movie, but if you haven't ever seen any of the episodes, it's going to be very hard to fully comprehend. At least watch The Best of Both Worlds Part 1 and 2, if nothing else.
I still love the Enterprise crashing onto the planet though. Fantastic sequence.
Ah yes, the Enterprise crashing into the planet.
Your first mistake was letting Riker drive, your second mistake was the notorious lack of seatbelts.
I mean, the seats on the bridge arent even Recaro racing seats designed to keep you in them, they're like hotel loungers...not exactly designed for much turbulence.
Get with it Starfleet!
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This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
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