MF YYC Politics - there, I mega did it

[PepsiFree]

Would going into off topic tangents every few weeks where you complain about tribalism, d-bags, and how the mods don’t do anything count as making things personal in well-supported posts or making things personal in low effort posts?

The real problem, as it has always been, is that there is a small, vocal minority of posters who like to engage in topics in low effort ways, but when faced with actually having to thinking about their positions or face any sort of pushback, instead of doing what most people in the real world do and just… you know… think or consider their own opinion, they rant about tribalism, echo chambers, broad whining about “leftism” or “progressives.” We’re dealing with middle aged men that have been on the internet for 20+ years and still have no functional ability to have a conversation where their views are questioned. It’s little surprise that some of this very small group have not changed their position on a single topic in a decade, despite however many conversations about it.

The complete divorce from reality required to be one of these few people, which are literally the same people every time, is astounding.

So, maybe y’all could just get over it and be grown ups? That’s how we do things in “the real world,” I can’t think of a single person I’ve ever had a disagreement with offline, no matter how passionate, that ever resorted to over the top complains about echo chambers and tribalism. Of course, they aren’t debate perverts raised on internet forums who can’t seem to figure out how real life works, but hey.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by pylon

I've said it many times, and I'll say it again.

I've probably met more posters from this site than any other user. Around 100-120 people over the last 16-17 years have become great clients from back when I was just a sales guy on the floor looking for a few leads, and many became repeat ones to this day.

Legendary posters that went silent. Casual posters that went pretty much unknown. Lurkers. I became a client of many of them as well. I will always appreciate CalgaryPuck for allowing those opportunities to exist.

However, almost every single one that has become a return client, 95% of them gave up on this site because it turned into a Hyper Socialist Liberal echo chamber. Most of them were tired of being ridiculed, talked down to and bullied for having a Conservative View. In a Conservative Province, for a team with a majority Conservative fan base... Gondek getting boo'd off the ice was pretty much all you needed to see there. The opinions on this site reflect a fringe left element which doesn't align with the typical client of the team this site was originally based upon, this Province, or the majority of Albertans you'd talk to in the street. So almost all have stopped posting, and they left.

I'll paraphrase what one of these past members recently said "Unless you have your Hasan Piker T-shirt, your Young Turks Patreon membership, and your Purple Nenshi covid mask on full display the Socialist CPCP army will eat you alive."

I laughed at how ridiculous it sounded, and how true it actually is. But it's sad a handful of posters have had this effect and ruined a once awesome place to shoot the sh1t.

I know my opinions aren't always agreed with here, but even when I have come in to try and give useful advice, in my field of expertise, with no political opinion whatsoever, the Socialist CPCP SJW army just can't avoid taking shots at you.

I am a free speech absolutist, so I'm OK with it. I would rather live with that that any sort of censorship. However, the dwindling of this site, and what I am assuming eventual downfall of it, can be pinned on about 10-15 terminally online posters in the off topic with raging cases of "Smartest person in the room syndrome." that have run off some really great people with their utter lack of civility.

It's an uncomfortable truth, but true.

You're a free speech absolutist but have also thrown a tantrum, "quit the site" and then come back, several times.

As a grown ass man.

You're a lot more robust in your mind than you actually are my dude. Enough with this act. Stop pretending you're some freedom fighter.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Except that it’s often perfectly normal, middle-of-the-road opinions that get dogpiled here. If you don’t recognize how out of step many of the commonly-held attitudes expressed here are, you should get out and talk to more people IRL. Or for a more empirical context, look at opinion polls and election results.

Any community where someone like Slava is cast as a conservative with whacky views is comically out of touch with mainstream opinions. He’s about as milquetoast, middle of the road Calgarian as you get.

The real problem isn’t the disagreement. It’s the fact certain highly active posters have proven they cannot disagree without making things personal. Back when these forums were moderated, they were suspended again and again. But now they run rampant, spitting snark and taking personal shots, because members who agree with them politically are happy to give virtual high-fives to antagonistic d-bags so long as they’re being antagonistic d-bags for the right team.

It’s tribalism all the way down. How often do you see someone in these threads thank a well-supported post by someone who holds different political views, or call out a low-effort, antagonistic ####-post by someone who’s on the same team?

People engaging in long-form discussion about a niche topic are out of step with the Average Joe? Is...that your point? There's a lot we could unpack there (including a George Carlin classic), but it seems a particularly odd point to make in the midst of this particular discussion.

So what the Average Joes (or Jamals or Jafirs or Jins-Yang if I may be so bold to include an actual representative sample of the population) think should be held in higher esteem than us latté sippers nerding out on a topic? Okay...but in this case that means ignoring what a lot of Average Joes and Jamals and Jafirs and Jins-Yang think on election days. Because there is an infallible line in the sand and it is borderline treasonous to question it (except for all the previous times that line was gross, of course)

[PepsiFree]

Guys, I’m going to be a big boy today and take this conversation to the real world.

I’ll bring it up with my friends, but I’m a little scared. How should I handle it if I bring it up and someone says “We shouldn’t even talk about it” and I say “why not” and they say “because it is what it is” and I say “should it be that way?” and they say “it doesn’t matter because it is what it is” and I say “tell me why it should be that way” and they say “NO YOU”? At that point, I’m expecting a random person to come to our table and start lecturing us about echo chambers and criticizing the bartender for not appropriate moderating our debate. After that, I assume someone else will come to the table and proceed with an unhinged rant about marxism and free speech.

I’m told this is what happens in the real word so I’m not sure I’m ready for it. Wish me luck! Having conversations in the real world about niche topics like permanent resident voting rights in municipal elections is vewwy skewwy.

Maybe we’ll just skip all that and have a normal conversation we laugh at each other if someone says something stupid… you know… like normal people.

[CliffFletcher]

Nobody is complaining about their opinions being disagreed with in a civil manner. Nobody complains about opendoor’s posts. It’s the posters who resort to personal attacks over and over and over and over again whenever they disagree with someone who drive people off these threads.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Guys, I’m going to be a big boy today and take this conversation to the real world.

I’ll bring it up with my friends, but I’m a little scared. How should I handle it if I bring it up and someone says “We shouldn’t even talk about it” and I say “why not” and they say “because it is what it is” and I say “should it be that way?” and they say “it doesn’t matter because it is what it is” and I say “tell me why it should be that way” and they say “NO YOU”? At that point, I’m expecting a random person to come to our table and start lecturing us about echo chambers and criticizing the bartender for not appropriate moderating our debate. After that, I assume someone else will come to the table and proceed with an unhinged rant about marxism and free speech.

I’m told this is what happens in the real word so I’m not sure I’m ready for it. Wish me luck! Having conversations in the real world about niche topics like permanent resident voting rights in municipal elections is vewwy skewwy.

Maybe we’ll just skip all that and have a normal conversation we laugh at each other if someone says something stupid… you know… like normal people.

You could start with being less of an ass. That would be an idea.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

You could start with being less of an ass. That would be an idea.

But that would be boring

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Except that it’s often perfectly normal, middle-of-the-road opinions that get dogpiled here. If you don’t recognize how out of step many of the commonly-held attitudes expressed here are, you should get out and talk to more people IRL. Or for a more empirical context, look at opinion polls and election results.

Any community where someone like Slava is cast as a conservative with whacky views is comically out of touch with mainstream opinions. He’s about as milquetoast, middle of the road Calgarian as you get.

The real problem isn’t the disagreement. It’s the fact certain highly active posters have proven they cannot disagree without making things personal. Back when these forums were moderated, they were suspended again and again. But now they run rampant, spitting snark and taking personal shots, because members who agree with them politically are happy to give virtual high-fives to antagonistic d-bags so long as they’re being antagonistic d-bags for the right team.

It’s tribalism all the way down. How often do you see someone in these threads thank a well-supported post by someone who holds different political views, or call out a low-effort, antagonistic ####-post by someone who’s on the same team?

This could be post of the year. Not for the content, but because Slava thanked a post where he got called a milquetoast.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Weitz

These threads are insufferable. I’m not sure how y’all do it anymore.

I get less hung up on who's "wrong" or "right" and just try to keep up on what the debate is.

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

This could be post of the year. Not for the content, but because Slava thanked a post where he got called a milquetoast.

When Harper was in power he was a POS commie liberal dickhead who liked ethical funds. Every 8 years or so he somehow moves to the other side. HaHa.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

You could start with being less of an ass. That would be an idea.

You’re just mad I’m more popular and beloved even with vocal haters. Low bar, my man, try harder.

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I get less hung up on who's "wrong" or "right" and just try to keep up on what the debate is.

It’s about permanent resident voting rights in municipal elections with a sidebar about how like four middle aged dudes can’t get over people being rude to them online.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

You’re just mad I’m more popular and beloved even with vocal haters. Low bar, my man, try harder.



It’s about permanent resident voting rights in municipal elections with a sidebar about how like four middle aged dudes can’t get over people being rude to them online.

Don't ask for opinions if you don't want them.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Guys, I’m going to be a big boy today and take this conversation to the real world.

I’ll bring it up with my friends, but I’m a little scared. How should I handle it if I bring it up and someone says “We shouldn’t even talk about it” and I say “why not” and they say “because it is what it is” and I say “should it be that way?” and they say “it doesn’t matter because it is what it is” and I say “tell me why it should be that way” and they say “NO YOU”? At that point, I’m expecting a random person to come to our table and start lecturing us about echo chambers and criticizing the bartender for not appropriate moderating our debate. After that, I assume someone else will come to the table and proceed with an unhinged rant about marxism and free speech.

I’m told this is what happens in the real word so I’m not sure I’m ready for it. Wish me luck! Having conversations in the real world about niche topics like permanent resident voting rights in municipal elections is vewwy skewwy.

Maybe we’ll just skip all that and have a normal conversation we laugh at each other if someone says something stupid… you know… like normal people.

Holy #### you need to chill out with the over the top hyperbole.

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Holy #### you need to chill out with the over the top hyperbole.

Isn't hyperbole, by definition, 'over the top'? So you just said some unnecessary redundant words there.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by fotze2

Isn't hyperbole, by definition, 'over the top'? So you just said some unnecessary redundant words there.

But this is over the top even for hyperbole. This is hyperbole squared.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

But this is over the top even for hyperbole. This is hyperbole squared.

That was the point of the post though, wasn't it? Using hyperbole for dramatic effect.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by fotze2

isn't hyperbole, by definition, 'over the top'? So you just said some unnecessary redundant words there.

fyp.

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by Wormius

fyp.

I did that on porpoise

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Don't ask for opinions if you don't want them.

I hope street sweepers leave a big pile of gravel on your front lawn.

Originally Posted by Fuzz

That was the point of the post though, wasn't it? Using hyperbole for dramatic effect.

Thanks brigade bro. Someone gets it.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by ThisIsAnOutrage

What is the case for extending municipal voting rights to PR? I'm not seeing one. Is it because some people who live in cities are PR status? Because they want to?

Feels like we are in if it ain't broke don't fix it territory here. Having just citizens vote works fine. You want to vote? Become a citizen. The whole proposal feels like a solution in search of a problem.

I can see a case for it at the municipal level.

Someone could be a PR status for 5 years, lived in Calgary during that time, not eligible for citizenship (or perhaps is, but for personal reasons, may choose not to apply).

How come this person doesn't get a say in building the community they live in?

Municipal politics *shouldn't* be like provincial or federal politics. Ideology shouldnt have to apply - although i understand this seems to be changing along with the rapid polarization of every other political community.

But, I'm also not going to die on the hill of fighting for this. Nor would I die on this hill if i was opposed. Given the lack of engagement from most citizens, i would suspect PR voter turnout would be quite low as well - however, that's every voters prerogative