[News] With the 21st overall pick Flames select C Mark Jankowski

[guuar]

Originally Posted by kermitology

Are you suggesting that Brandon Carlo was drafted with the Flames 2nd round pick traded for Hamilton? He wasn't. That was a pick from Philadelphia that was previously acquired from the Islanders.

No he was not.

If you would watch and read what Boston's GM was saying about that 2015 NHL Draft you would understand.

Don Sweeney was saying at the 2016 NHL Draft that the previous year acquiring extra picks didn't exactly work out as they had hoped. Sweeney indicated they initially wanted to move up to the #3 to #6 spots.

It sounds like they were targeting either Hanifin or Provorov.

If you look at Boston's defensive depth prior to the 2015 and 2016 drafts it was absolutely horrible. Fans in Boston were absolutely livid that they traded away Hamilton when their prospect depth on defence was already exceptionally poor.

The deal they had fell through when it became apparent that Phoenix and Toronto were likely passing on Hanifin. It sort of makes sense when both Arizona and Toronto felt like they had their #1D already.

This is also why the picks that Boston made were highly confusing to both the TSN/Sportsnet reporters as well as the Boston Bruins fan base.

Both Debrusk and Senyshyn were drafted well ahead of where they should have been drafted. Sweeney said guys like Barzal and Connor were not even interviewed during the pre-draft testing.

When they all the sudden found themselves with THREE 1st round picks and THREE 2nd round picks they were able to pick up players that weren't on their radar. Heck, he even stated they had Senyshyn targeted with their #37 pick.

Initially their draft plan was taking the best defencemen left at #14 which likely would have been either Zboril or Chabot.

The #37 pick would ideally have been Jake Debrusk or Zach Senyshyn.

That is why they literally took players so far down the list in the first round. There is nothing wrong with that if you have those players you clearly want.

Don Sweeney not interviewing Matthew Barzal and not taking him at #13 #14 or #15 will end up being a big mistake though. He has shown incredible play making skills.

It also makes the desperation trade for Griffin Reinhart look 100x worse. Edmonton with Matthew Barzal would arguably have a set lineup for a decade. McDavid and Barzal as your #1 and #2 would have been perfect. I imagine they also get a way better defencemen for Nugent-Hopkins.

Either way they got incredible value for Hamilton. Senyshyn will be a pure goal scoring right winger. So in the long run Boston will be a clear winner for trading both Lucic and Hamilton at the draft. Nobody in Calgary has any idea how pissed off fans in Boston were.

They all wanted Don Sweeney's head. Initial thoughts were it was bad enough they gave away Lucic and Sweeney but then they drafted the wrong players and signed replacement players for way too much money.

All things considered Sweeney comes out of both trades and both 2015 and 2016 entry draft looking like a genius.

He drafted 4 solid defencemen and then Jake Debrusk, Zach Senyshyn and Trent Frederic are all looking like top 6 forwards.

In 2015 they took Jake Debrusk and Zach Senyshyn way ahead of their ranking. Did the same with Trent Frederic.

And again, their dummy pick ends up being a home run. The rookie season Trent Frederic had for Wisconsin was on Jack Eichel's level of play.

So yes to answer your question. Boston did ok with their picks from the trade.

What did Calgary get again from Jarome Iginla and Jay Bouwmeester? I forgot, what was it? Spare change and pocket lint?

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by guuar

No. I'd rather have the collection of players that Boston managed to snag as a result of trading both Lucic and Hamilton.

Zach Senyshyn is going to be playing 2nd/3rd line RW next year for the Bruins. That #15 pick that we surrendered could have been Senyshyn, Barzal, Connor, Boeser or even Ilya Samsonov.

A lot of uneducated people on CP that DO NOT understand that Boston made out like bandits from that 2015 NHL draft. All THREE 1st round picks they made that year are looking like impact players at the NHL level. Zboril, Debrusk and Senyshyn are all putting up great numbers. Ironically the 2nd round picks are all looking great as well.

Brandon Carlo is already a Top 4D and was only in his rookie season.

I don't understand why you keep talking about the pick they got from trading Lucic, or Brandon Carlo. They have nothing to do with the deal Calgary made for Hamilton. If you want to say that you would rather have Senshyn (15), Jakob Forsbacka-Karlsson (45), and Jeremy Lauzon (52), then I can appreciate your viewpoint.

You can have the belief that Boston had a great 2015 draft coming away with a lot of very good prospects, but the only ones relevant in a discussion revolving around Hamilton are the ones I've listed above.

[guuar]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Unsolicited advice but when you start calling folks uneducated just because they have a different view point, that's where you are going to find folks aren't too welcoming.

As an aside, I don't think they had a great firs tround. I think all 3 guys they picked were solid, but have question marks. I would say Zboril in particular isn't as highly regarded as he was when he was drafted.
My own opinion. Uneducated or educated I will leave to you to decide.

They only had a choice between Zboril and Chabot. The 3 D they were targeting were Hanifin, Provorov and Werenski. The idea was to package 2 or 3 of those 1st round picks to one of Carolina, Philadelphia or Columbus for their #1 pick and a roster player.

Hard to say if Boston is better with Hanifin, Provorov or Werenski vs Zboril, Debrusk, Senyshyn and Trent Frederic. Trend Frederic alone is an incredible pickup. If they end up getting one of the big 3 defencemen they likely are taking completely different players.

Brandon Carlo ends up being a solid #4D in his rookie season and all these 1st round picks now make their prospect depth look incredible. Wasn't what they planned for but seems to be working.

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by guuar

What did Calgary get again from Jarome Iginla and Jay Bouwmeester? I forgot, what was it? Spare change and pocket lint?

Iginla was 36, and rapidly declining. Hamilton was 21 and a high end prospect, so you know, not really apples and apples.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by guuar

No he was not.

If you would watch and read what Boston's GM was saying about that 2015 NHL Draft you would understand.

Don Sweeney was saying at the 2016 NHL Draft that the previous year acquiring extra picks didn't exactly work out as they had hoped. Sweeney indicated they initially wanted to move up to the #3 to #6 spots.

It sounds like they were targeting either Hanifin or Provorov.

If you look at Boston's defensive depth prior to the 2015 and 2016 drafts it was absolutely horrible. Fans in Boston were absolutely livid that they traded away Hamilton when their prospect depth on defence was already exceptionally poor.

The deal they had fell through when it became apparent that Phoenix and Toronto were likely passing on Hanifin. It sort of makes sense when both Arizona and Toronto felt like they had their #1D already.

This is also why the picks that Boston made were highly confusing to both the TSN/Sportsnet reporters as well as the Boston Bruins fan base.

Both Debrusk and Senyshyn were drafted well ahead of where they should have been drafted. Sweeney said guys like Barzal and Connor were not even interviewed during the pre-draft testing.

When they all the sudden found themselves with THREE 1st round picks and THREE 2nd round picks they were able to pick up players that weren't on their radar. Heck, he even stated they had Senyshyn targeted with their #37 pick.

Initially their draft plan was taking the best defencemen left at #14 which likely would have been either Zboril or Chabot.

The #37 pick would ideally have been Jake Debrusk or Zach Senyshyn.

That is why they literally took players so far down the list in the first round. There is nothing wrong with that if you have those players you clearly want.

Don Sweeney not interviewing Matthew Barzal and not taking him at #13 #14 or #15 will end up being a big mistake though. He has shown incredible play making skills.

It also makes the desperation trade for Griffin Reinhart look 100x worse. Edmonton with Matthew Barzal would arguably have a set lineup for a decade. McDavid and Barzal as your #1 and #2 would have been perfect. I imagine they also get a way better defencemen for Nugent-Hopkins.

Either way they got incredible value for Hamilton. Senyshyn will be a pure goal scoring right winger. So in the long run Boston will be a clear winner for trading both Lucic and Hamilton at the draft. Nobody in Calgary has any idea how pissed off fans in Boston were.

They all wanted Don Sweeney's head. Initial thoughts were it was bad enough they gave away Lucic and Sweeney but then they drafted the wrong players and signed replacement players for way too much money.

All things considered Sweeney comes out of both trades and both 2015 and 2016 entry draft looking like a genius.

He drafted 4 solid defencemen and then Jake Debrusk, Zach Senyshyn and Trent Frederic are all looking like top 6 forwards.

In 2015 they took Jake Debrusk and Zach Senyshyn way ahead of their ranking. Did the same with Trent Frederic.

And again, their dummy pick ends up being a home run. The rookie season Trent Frederic had for Wisconsin was on Jack Eichel's level of play.

So yes to answer your question. Boston did ok with their picks from the trade.

What did Calgary get again from Jarome Iginla and Jay Bouwmeester? I forgot, what was it? Spare change and pocket lint?

This is a Jankowski thread, no?

[Canada 02]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

This is a Jankowski thread, no?

No

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

This is a Jankowski thread, no?

Which is why we're talking about everything but Jankowski. Those are the rules.

[guuar]

Originally Posted by Mass_nerder

I don't understand why you keep talking about the pick they got from trading Lucic, or Brandon Carlo. They have nothing to do with the deal Calgary made for Hamilton. If you want to say that you would rather have Senshyn (15), Jakob Forsbacka-Karlsson (45), and Jeremy Lauzon (52), then I can appreciate your viewpoint.

You can have the belief that Boston had a great 2015 draft coming away with a lot of very good prospects, but the only ones relevant in a discussion revolving around Hamilton are the ones I've listed above.

Yes they absolutely do. Is it this hard for you to understand?

If they trade #13 #14 and #15 and draft Werenski or Provorov instead they are going to take completely different players with their 2nd round picks in 2015 and their 1st round picks in 2016.

Would be the same thing if Calgary had traded all three 1st round picks for Monahan. If they have Nathan Mackinnon it's very likely we don't draft Sam Bennett. More likely they go after William Nylander in order to give Mackinnon solid 1st line players. I mean a line of...

Gaudreau - Mackinnon - W. Nylander

Would be incredibly sick right now. We likely also don't take Mason Macdonald in the 2nd round in 2014.

Every pick and trade has an effect on the future decisions you make. You know like the butterfly effect.

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by guuar

Yes they absolutely do. Is it this hard for you to understand?

If they trade #13 #14 and #15 and draft Werenski or Provorov instead they are going to take completely different players with their 2nd round picks in 2015 and their 1st round picks in 2016.

Would be the same thing if Calgary had traded all three 1st round picks for Monahan. If they have Nathan Mackinnon it's very likely we don't draft Sam Bennett. More likely they go after William Nylander in order to give Mackinnon solid 1st line players. I mean a line of...

Gaudreau - Mackinnon - W. Nylander

Would be incredibly sick right now. We likely also don't take Mason Macdonald in the 2nd round in 2014.

Every pick and trade has an effect on the future decisions you make. You know like the butterfly effect.

I understand that previous decisions obviously have an impact on future ones, but throwing out definitive statements based on what was rumored, but never happened, is pretty silly.

[Geeoff]

If everyone knew that Carlo would be an NHLer so soon, he wouldn't have made it to the 2nd round. Obviously, every draft would go better with the advantage of hindsight. The Bruins were pretty much universally panned for the players they picked back to back to back.

[ClubFlames]

I totally agree with Guaar.

I was so mad at the team on March 11, 2003 when they acquired Shean Donovan from Pittsburgh for Micki Dupont and Mattias Johansson. Like why couldn't we have added something to acquire their first round pick in 2005? Like yeah Donovan was okay in that playoff run but who cares. We could have drafted Sidney Crosby!

Another time was when we got Ville Niemenen in 2004 for Jason Morgan and a conditional pick from the Hawks, why didn't we put the condition so that we could have had their first rounder in 2007?

If only we were smart enough.

OMG can you guyzzz imagine Gaudreau - Crosby - Kane

I hate this team so much. Guaarrrrr Rawrrrrrr

[Crumpy-Gunt]

Jankowski is going to be fun to watch next season.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by guuar

He could easily play 1st line minutes and not look out of place. A line of;

Gaudreau - Jankowski - Ferland

would be every bit as good as;

Gaudreau - Monahan - Ferland

No. It most certainly does not look "every bit as good."

The problem is we don't know if Monahan can excel without Gaudreau...

Sean Monahan has spent a fair bit of time on his own and not centring Gaudreau, and it hasn't had a major impact on his production. A line with the team's two best forwards will always be better for both of them offensively, but it needs to be reiterated that Monahan on his own is an excellent NHL player. As much as I like Mark Jankowski, he is substantially better than Jankowski.

[Scornfire]

I can't believe how often this thread gets derailed, every time I open it I feel like I've just woken up from a coma

[Lanny_McDonald]

Who is this guuar person and when does someone shut them up? Holy crap, Trent Frederic is on the same level as Jack Eichel? Sure, if you discount 38 points from Eichel's season. It seems every pick Boston has made is now a first ballot Hall of Famer. Meanwhile Calgary would be lucky to get any player by trading cover of their best young players? Only response to this is derp, derp, derp.

[FanIn80]

Monahan
Backlund
Jankowski

Spoiler!

"Thanks Alex. I'm going go with..."

"Who will be the Centers for the top three lines of the Calgary Flames at the start of the 2017-18 NHL season?"

[bax]

Frederic = 33 points in 30 games as a 19 year old

Eichel = 71 points in 40 games as an 18 year old.

Yeah, exact same.

And you know who put up better numbers than Senshyn in junior? Sven Baertschi for one. That list would be waaaaay too long.

[bubbsy]

Man, who knew bruin fans are on par of annoyance as oilers fans.?

[ccivilian]

Did Janks get traded to the B's? I am so lost ...sure wish I got my reading diplomas.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

This is a Jankowski thread, no?

That's what it's named. Not what it is.