[PGT] Flames lose 4-3. Questionable Team Defense

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Brodie showing worrisome signs? Are we watching the same player? Brodie looks great night in and night out by far the best player on the ice for both teams.

Last night Gio brought him down and that goal a few people are saying he gave the puck away was actually a missed call from the refs.

Brodie has been fine. Hamilton though continues to underwhelm no matter how much Hartley shelters him. And he's been sheltered a lot.

Monahan is showing flashes and has struggled but a lot of young centers do. He will be fine.

Should've been more clear. Just was trying to say the future core not just veterans were showing worrying signs, not Brodie specifically. It was written very unclear in that regard. I could've included Johnny and he's clearly been great

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

It's Black and White to me, the Captain isn't pulling his weight out there.

It might be the pressure, it might be returning from injury, it might be age; whatever it is, the results on the ice speak for themselves.

Why is Wideman getting icetime? Because as bad as he has been, he's been better than Hamilton, Giordano, Russell and in last night's game, Brodie.

Things are truly ugly when Dennis Wideman is your best defender.

What? Is that truly how you see it? As bad as the group has been, there's no way Wideman is even in the top 4 at the moment.

Wideman was by far the worst defenseman in last night's game. Couldn't do anything well at either end of the ice and looked like he was skating in mud.

I can think of two games early on where Wideman was ok offensively, but still pretty poor defensively. Since then he's been steadily going downhill.

No joke, I honestly want to know why you see it so drastically differently.

[polak]

Team defense and the system is the problem. Firing Hartley is the only shot of solving this problem. We cant trade Gio or Hamilton or Wideman or Russell for a good deal. No one is going to pay a decent price for the worst defense in the NHL.

We're probably not going to be able to find a goalie.

[rehsifylf]

Originally Posted by Realtor 1

I guess it is fairly divided in CP's thoughts on Ramos play.
When Hrudey has been quoted as saying a fanned shot is a extremely hard shot to save, I believe him. Point out 1 goal against Ramo that he should have saved which wasnt fanned (doesnt go where the shooter or goalie are expecting) or a shooter didnt have a perfect look.

Then it is worth pointing out the scrambled play in front of him with many screen saves and the incredible breakaway save. In no way am I saying he was great but goaltending was not the issue tonight.

What? Kelly Hrudey defended a goalie? No way. I don't believe it.

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[Travis Munroe]

Originally Posted by rehsifylf

What? Kelly Hrudey defended a goalie? No way. I don't believe it.

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He spoke to the difficulty involved in different shots and which are more challenging vs which are easier.

I personally appreciate his point of view. He has more experience on the ice than every CP member combined. Whether you agree or disagree, there is no doubting his success or experience first hand.

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[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Realtor 1

He spoke to the difficulty involved in different shots and which are more challenging vs which are easier.

I personally appreciate his point of view. He has more experience on the ice than every CP member combined. Whether you agree or disagree, there is no doubting his success or experience first hand.

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Well this was Ramo's take on that goal:

"He kind of fanned on the first shot and I lost the edge of my skate. I didn’t get a push and was just out of my reach. An ugly, slow goal."

It sounds to me that Ramo thinks he should have had it.

[Travis Munroe]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Well this was Ramo's take on that goal:

"He kind of fanned on the first shot and I lost the edge of my skate. I didn’t get a push and was just out of my reach. An ugly, slow goal."

It sounds to me that Ramo thinks he should have had it.

I don't have the audio atm and didn't hear the interview or maybe you did not quote the point he says "I should have had it"

Fanned on it? Yes
Lost a edge? Yes (tends to happen on fanned shots as you anticipate the puck one way and it goes another)
Didn't get a push? Yes, happens when you don't have your edge
Ugly and slow? One of Jagrs uglier and slower goals this year and found the only spot along the ice it could have went in

Even if I were to agree we could swap that goal with a save and have 1 of the several odd man rush attempts or breakaway attempt go in. That breakaway save was incredible and kept he team alive.

Anyway - can we just win tonight with a stellar d performance and 1 or 2 incredible saves to put the whole debate to rest (for now anyway lol)

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Well this was Ramo's take on that goal:

"He kind of fanned on the first shot and I lost the edge of my skate. I didn’t get a push and was just out of my reach. An ugly, slow goal."

It sounds to me that Ramo thinks he should have had it.

Sounds to me like he's saying the fan threw him off but thinks he should have had it, which is pretty much what Hrudey said - it can throw a goalie off. Optics were bad on that one especially being the go ahead goal.

Defensive breakdown and non-save. Defense and Goalie share the blame.

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by polak

Team defense and the system is the problem. Firing Hartley is the only shot of solving this problem. We cant trade Gio or Hamilton or Wideman or Russell for a good deal. No one is going to pay a decent price for the worst defense in the NHL.

We're probably not going to be able to find a goalie.

That is crazy talk.

The situation is either....

1) our league best group of blue liners is not as good as we thought and had an outlier year last year covering up for weak goaltending.

or....

2) or our middling goaltending just got a lot worse and the d corps is mentally flustered as a result.

[paulf7]

Anyone that has played hockey (at a higher level) would know that lazy, cheating forwards make the defence and goalies look bad. The flames have evidently been guilty of that this year and yet, many here seem to not notice this...

[polak]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

That is crazy talk.

The situation is either....

1) our league best group of blue liners is not as good as we thought and had an outlier year last year covering up for weak goaltending.

or....

2) or our middling goaltending just got a lot worse and the d corps is mentally flustered as a result.

Both. The point of my post is that we can't fix either. We're stuck.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by paulf7

Anyone that has played hockey (at a higher level) would know that lazy, cheating forwards make the defence and goalies look bad. The flames have evidently been guilty of that this year and yet, many here seem to not notice this...

One great example of this is Jiri Hudler on the Aaron Ekblad goal from the Panthers game.

If you watch the highlight, Jiri identifies Ekblad, points at him with his stick, and watches him casually skate by for the backdoor one-timer.

Yeah, the d-man should've stopped the pass, but even if Jiri has to trip Ekblad and take a penalty - Ekblad can't walk in freely like that.

The whole team is a pile of suck right now, but I'd still say goaltending is the biggest problem at the moment thanks to the nature of the position.

You can overcome a missed assignment, you can't overcome an awful goal that has no right going in on an NHL goalie. (most nights we're talking about more than a single goal, as well).

[paulf7]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

One great example of this is Jiri Hudler on the Aaron Ekblad goal from the Panthers game.

If you watch the highlight, Jiri identifies Ekblad, points at him with his stick, and watches him casually skate by for the backdoor one-timer.

Yeah, the d-man should've stopped the pass, but even if Jiri has to trip Ekblad and take a penalty - Ekblad can't walk in freely like that.

The whole team is a pile of suck right now, but I'd still say goaltending is the biggest problem at the moment thanks to the nature of the position.

You can overcome a missed assignment, you can't overcome an awful goal that has no right going in on an NHL goalie. (most nights we're talking about more than a single goal, as well).

100% agree..I just find that the forwards are blowing the defensive zone early and it makes it much harder to make that outlet pass. Couple this with blown coverages (some young guys on the team that people are fawning over are terrible at this) and you get 4 goals against.

The defence is getting a lot of the blame so far this year, but I do not believe it is totally deserved. Gio in particular is getting torn to shreds and yet he has 4 goals (tied for 2nd on the team). Not saying goals mean everything, obviously, but that has to stand for something. I think Brodie is exceptionally good (huge fan of him) and on his way to potentially being an elite defensemen, but he coughed up the puck the other night and everyone jumped on Gio and Ramo.

There should be a calgarypuck type of forum to critique the responses made by posters here lol.

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by paulf7

Anyone that has played hockey (at a higher level) would know that lazy, cheating forwards make the defence and goalies look bad. The flames have evidently been guilty of that this year and yet, many here seem to not notice this...

This sounds like you are a defensemen lol. They always claim the forwards are 'cheating' but I haven't seen that much with this group since Iginla was traded.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by northcrunk

This sounds like you are a defensemen lol. They always claim the forwards are 'cheating' but I haven't seen that much with this group since Iginla was traded.

When you're in the defensive zone as a winger, your man is the opposing D-man at the blueline. So Ekblad should've been Hudler's assignment in the first place, yet all Jiri did was point with his stick and hope Brodie blocked the pass, then was left in no-man's land as Ekblad walked in from the blueline and had a wide open net to score on.

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

When you're in the defensive zone as a winger, your man is the opposing D-man at the blueline. So Ekblad should've been Hudler's assignment in the first place, yet all Jiri did was point with his stick and hope Brodie blocked the pass, then was left in no-man's land as Ekblad walked in from the blueline and had a wide open net to score on.

Yep that was a missed assignment there for sure. Backlund has had quite a few too this year. I will agree that was a lazy play for sure but there hasn't been so many of those this year that they make up for all of the soft goals. The majority of the problems stem from the goalie.