Does anyone know what First Air's financials look like since that incident? Did a quick google search but didn't find much, granted I didn't look too hard.
When I was in Inuvik last year I came back just before Christmas, and that's a very busy time for airlines obviously, but especially up there when it's the only way to travel. (highways closed)
40 minutes before my flight (Canadian North) there was a First Air flight leaving. Exact same plane, exact same flight path, just 40 minutes earlier. 737-200C, flying from YEV to YVQ, YZF then YEG.
Our flight was full (115 people iirc) First Air flight had about 20-30 people on it. Curious if people just didn't want to fly FA, or maybe it was just mostly taking cargo that day?
Business question here - which North American Airline would be the most vulnerable financially to a downturn in the economy or an 9/11 hit to the industry? United? Alaskan?
I've had the chance to read the report about First Air 6580. I find it disappointing. Disappointing that the aviation community has worked to solve such problems, yet they still happen.
Indeed, ever since the malay flight disappeared, I've been watching a lot of Mayday episodes and it's crazy how many of these accidents are straight up pilot error or minor malfunction followed by baffling decisions by the pilots that seem to defy logic.
Obviously its not fair to arm chair quaterback when you're not in the cockpit, but the pilot ignored 2 different systems that told him he's not on course, ignored his co-pilot for more then 2 minutes and flew the plane into the ground.
The plane never should have landed, and if they had to it should have been gentle! Sure it has to be a hard landing to avoid hydroplaneing but passengers want a soft landing gosh darn it!
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also over a 20-second span, 2˝ minutes before the 737 plowed into the hillside, Hare (the co-pilot)madefive statements about the aircraft’s position being off. Hare then said that GPS and the landing beacon sent out from the runway both showed their approach angle to be off. One minute and 20 seconds before the crash, he recommended aborting the landing, after reminding the captain about the hill to the right of the runway. With a minute to go, Hare again made several comments about taking corrective action. Finally, six seconds before the crash, Hare called Rutherford by his first name.“I don’t like this,” he said.
So i'm no expert but this sounds to me like a bad case of CRM. This obviously isn't the first crash to happen in the case of a co-pilot failing to be assertive enough. Just curious if our resident avgeeks could provide more insight into this? In cases like this is the Captain under alot of pressure to avoid a go-around? Or is it more of an ego thing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Coke
Sounds like the FO was pretty assertive. It gets to a point where short of trying to fight for control, the Captain needs to listen.
As for pressure, not really, at least not an external pressure. There is certainly some ego in not wanting to admit or believe that you have screwed up the approach, and also task inertia.....you want to finish what you started. But that is often the most important part of the job....knowing when to say no, we can't takeoff, or we can't land, or this approach isn't working out and we have to go around.
Very sad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan02
Indeed, ever since the malay flight disappeared, I've been watching a lot of Mayday episodes and it's crazy how many of these accidents are straight up pilot error or minor malfunction followed by baffling decisions by the pilots that seem to defy logic.
Obviously its not fair to arm chair quaterback when you're not in the cockpit, but the pilot ignored 2 different systems that told him he's not on course, ignored his co-pilot for more then 2 minutes and flew the plane into the ground.
There are several Mayday episodes where crew resource management (CRM) is discussed along with other aviation reports. Kerriffic is correct, this accident unfortunately shows that negative CRM happened. Positive CRM did happen in the Gimli Glider incident with Captain Pearson and First Officer Quintal, Northwest Airlines Flight 85, and United Airlines Flight 232 even though there were fatalities in that incident.
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must show all Flames games nationally when they play on Saturdays, Mondays, and Wednesdays !!!
British Airways has slightly delayed the first 787 flight to YYC. It is now July 15th instead of the 5th.
I am flying on JAL's 787 to Tokyo in a few days! Stoked for it! Saw the first production model back in 2008 at the Boeing Factory after they started tearing it apart after revealing it to the media. Been waiting to see a completed one in person ever since.
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I am flying on JAL's 787 to Tokyo in a few days! Stoked for it! Saw the first production model back in 2008 at the Boeing Factory after they started tearing it apart after revealing it to the media. Been waiting to see a completed one in person ever since.
I finally saw my first 787 in person on Saturday at DEN. United had one parked over by their hangar. Great looking bird.
typo. That would be impressive. Couple of eskimos just strapped onto the roof.
must show all Flames games nationally when they play on Saturdays, Mondays, and Wednesdays !!!
