[PGT] Flames 6 Arizona 5 - whine about the tank here

[traptor]

Originally Posted by Bingo

What a terrible response.

Never made the case that he's an all star or should be revered.

But he's one of Calgary's best players since January 1st and certainly since the trade deadline.

If by one of the flames best players you mean like 6th or 7th best player on a bottom team in meaningless games then sure.

But hes also gifted +70% oz, top line atoi and pp1.

What he's bringing now isn't "good". It's the absolute bare minimum that should be expected based on the context of the opportunities they're giving him and his salary.

Even ignoring contract would he be a top 100 forward in the league? Add in contract and he might be one of the least desirable forwards in the NHL.


It's okay to say stinks, because he has and for a large sample size.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Not sure I remember a year where they shed 5 UFAs for futures and promoted this many rookies.

Maybe your frustration should have an expiry date?

Also got rid of Sutter (who wouldn’t have played promoted rookies near as much).

Honestly, two wins against bottom feeders and suddenly the Flames are not rebuilding?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by traptor

If by one of the flames best players you mean like 6th or 7th best player on a bottom team in meaningless games then sure.

But hes also gifted +70% oz, top line atoi and pp1.

What he's bringing now isn't "good". It's the absolute bare minimum that should be expected based on the context of the opportunities they're giving him and his salary.

Even ignoring contract would he be a top 100 forward in the league? Add in contract and he might be one of the least desirable forwards in the NHL.


It's okay to say stinks, because he has and for a large sample size.

Bingo already posted his P/60 and play driving stats. Not 6th or 7th. More like 3rd and that’s because Kadri has been lights out and Sharangovich has been great.

He’s not getting top line time on ice either. He’s well below Kadri, Sharangovich, Backlund and Coleman. He’s been getting the same as Zary and Kuzmenko.

[traptor]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Bingo already posted his P/60 and play driving stats. Not 6th or 7th. More like 3rd and that’s because Kadri has been lights out and Sharangovich has been great.

He’s not getting top line time on ice either. He’s well below Kadri, Sharangovich, Backlund and Coleman. He’s been getting the same as Zary and Kuzmenko.

O okay well if we're just basing everything on those stats he posted then Huberdeau is behind kuzmenko, miromanov and Hanley as well...

That's not true. He's our highest atoi winger. If just looking at 5on5 he's our second highest atoi winger, only behind coleman by 2 seconds. If youre looking at all forwards he's only behind kadri, backlund and lindholm.

You also conveniently ignored the oz starts.


He's being played like a #1 winger offensive sheltered winger and has 12 goals, 52 points and is -28 on a bottom feeder.


Not sure why some people try so hard to defend this guy's play.


You guy get served a #### sandwich and lick your fingers at the end asking for more.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by traptor

If by one of the flames best players you mean like 6th or 7th best player on a bottom team in meaningless games then sure.

But hes also gifted +70% oz, top line atoi and pp1.

What he's bringing now isn't "good". It's the absolute bare minimum that should be expected based on the context of the opportunities they're giving him and his salary.

Even ignoring contract would he be a top 100 forward in the league? Add in contract and he might be one of the least desirable forwards in the NHL.


It's okay to say stinks, because he has and for a large sample size.

Thanks for the contribution.

A poster said they should play Huberdeau 30 minutes a game if they want to lose. I pointed out his metrics are top five on the team since the trade deadline.

Do you want to have a full blown Huberdeau value conversation? Because if you do I'm willing, but it doesn't really fit what the initial thought or response was.

[Rhett44]

Lots of hostility in this thread. But I see 2 different philosophies from people:

1. The Flames are good enough to contend. They just need to add a few pieces. These are the same people who want Kuzmenko re signed, think Huberdeau can turn it around and are hoping we add a couple players via free agency. These people are fine with wins at this time of year.

2. The Flames are not good, and the whole thing needs to be blown up. These are people cheering for losses. And who would like aging UFAs like Kuzmenko traded at the next deadline, thinking more long term than short term.

I'm assuming that's why there is such a difference in opinions between people.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

Lots of hostility in this thread. But I see 2 different philosophies from people:

1. The Flames are good enough to contend. They just need to add a few pieces. These are the same people who want Kuzmenko re signed, think Huberdeau can turn it around and are hoping we add a couple players via free agency. These people are fine with wins at this time of year.

2. The Flames are not good, and the whole thing needs to be blown up. These are people cheering for losses. And who would like aging UFAs like Kuzmenko traded at the next deadline, thinking more long term than short term.

I'm assuming that's why there is such a difference in opinions between people.

I don't think anyone thinks they are a few pieces away from contending.

Everyone knows losses are good.

Some just don't lose their minds when a hockey team wins 30% of their games.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

Lots of hostility in this thread. But I see 2 different philosophies from people:

1. The Flames are good enough to contend. They just need to add a few pieces. These are the same people who want Kuzmenko re signed, think Huberdeau can turn it around and are hoping we add a couple players via free agency. These people are fine with wins at this time of year.

2. The Flames are not good, and the whole thing needs to be blown up. These are people cheering for losses. And who would like aging UFAs like Kuzmenko traded at the next deadline, thinking more long term than short term.

I'm assuming that's why there is such a difference in opinions between people.

I don’t think anybody believes this team is good enough to contend. The people who are interested in re-signing Kuz or signing free agents just understand how a retool works and understand that the Flames have not and will not be “tanking” or throwing games.

Everybody understands that the Flames are not good. They’re well out of the playoffs. They’re going to pick top ten which, by any measure, means they have not been good. It’s a difference between realists and dreamers. The realists know they have to ice a team and aren’t tanking so are evaluating the best path forward based on that reality. The dreamers just complain and poo poo anything that doesn’t fit with how they wish the team and direction was, instead of how it actually is.

[traptor]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Thanks for the contribution.

A poster said they should play Huberdeau 30 minutes a game if they want to lose. I pointed out his metrics are top five on the team since the trade deadline.

Do you want to have a full blown Huberdeau value conversation? Because if you do I'm willing, but it doesn't really fit what the initial thought or response was.

Originally Posted by Bingo

But he's one of Calgary's best players since January 1st and certainly since the trade deadline.

I'm just disagreeing with this.

Is he the flames worst player? No. Is he one of the flames best players? No.

Would playing Huberdeau 30 minutes a night lead to more losses? Probably, playing any middle 6 winger that much would.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

Lots of hostility in this thread. But I see 2 different philosophies from people:

1. The Flames are good enough to contend. They just need to add a few pieces. These are the same people who want Kuzmenko re signed, think Huberdeau can turn it around and are hoping we add a couple players via free agency. These people are fine with wins at this time of year.

2. The Flames are not good, and the whole thing needs to be blown up. These are people cheering for losses. And who would like aging UFAs like Kuzmenko traded at the next deadline, thinking more long term than short term.

I'm assuming that's why there is such a difference in opinions between people.

Name one poster who advocates number 1. All anyone is saying is that people whining about a win over Arizona or Anaheim when the team has lost plenty of games down the stretch are being a tad irrational in their anger.

[topfiverecords]

Holy heck this is a lot of pages of whining and complaining about a few posts stating a loss would have been preferred over a win since the win is meaningless and higher lottery odds and more options at a higher pick position aren't.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Holy heck this is a lot of pages of whining and complaining about a few posts stating a loss would have been preferred over a win since the win is meaningless and higher lottery odds and more options at a higher pick position aren't.

That's one way to spin things, if you are choosing to ignore a lot of the comments in the thread.

For instance this one "It's the anger from having watched this team do the same thing every season over and over and never get good enough to go anywhere."

The completely ignores that the team actually made smart asset decisions this year by trading off all but 2 (Kylington and Backlund) of their pending UFAs.

Or that the team has had one of the worst records since the TDL.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

That's one way to spin things, if you are choosing to ignore a lot of the comments in the thread.

For instance this one "It's the anger from having watched this team do the same thing every season over and over and never get good enough to go anywhere."

The completely ignores that the team actually made smart asset decisions this year by trading off all but 2 (Kylington and Backlund) of their pending UFAs.

Or that the team has had one of the worst records since the TDL.

Nah, it's not spin. There's way more whining and complaining from the "What the heck would you actually like the players to do????" Brigade.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Nah, it's not spin. There's way more whining and complaining from the "What the heck would you actually like the players to do????" Brigade.

If you say so.
Except that 'brigade" has presented actual facts and information that counter the arguments being put forth.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

If you say so.
Except that 'brigade" has presented actual facts and information that counter the arguments being put forth.

The facts:

1. The Flames won the game.

2. The two points earned moved the Flames from 8th to 9th draft position.

That's the facts.

The rest is just garbage whining because some posters dared suggest they preferred the facts that go with a loss.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Did you expect the Flames to lose out? If so - was that a reasonable expectation?

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Did you expect the Flames to lose out? If so - was that a reasonable expectation?

Does it matter?

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Nah, it's not spin. There's way more whining and complaining from the "What the heck would you actually like the players to do????" Brigade.

I guess? But honestly I would like to hear one concrete example of what the players should do to make this losing happen?

Keep shooting it into the crowd? Keep playing football with it like Miromanov?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by traptor

I'm just disagreeing with this.

Is he the flames worst player? No. Is he one of the flames best players? No.

Would playing Huberdeau 30 minutes a night lead to more losses? Probably, playing any middle 6 winger that much would.

What metric are you using to determine who has been good if you're unimpressed with his overall production per time on the ice, or his splits of expected goals five on five?

Because unless you just ignore them he's been one of their best five skaters.

Is it the word best?

I think top 5 of 18 skaters is one of the best, but we can leave it at top five and not use the word!

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

The facts:

1. The Flames won the game.

2. The two points earned moved the Flames from 8th to 9th draft position.

That's the facts.

The rest is just garbage whining because some posters dared suggest they preferred the facts that go with a loss.

I'd say these are the facts

1. The Flames have been the 29th best team in hockey since the trade deadline

2. Every team wins some of their games