China's Millionaire Migration

[Leondros]

This has the potential to be hugely devastating for Canada.

I am not much a doomsayer when it comes bubbles, but there are just too many indicators that suggest we are in some serious trouble.

If this issue is as pervasive as this article (and many articles) seem to suggest, Canadian banks are going to find themselves holding on to a lot of devalued Vancouver/Toronto real estate with little to no recourse.

Maybe Goldman Sachs and other Wallstreet banks had it right when they began shorting the Canadian real estate market over a year and a half ago: http://news.nationalpost.com/news/ca...ting-to-happen.

This is just all too similar to 2008 with the US. Couple foreign buyers purchasing homes with Canadian bank's money along with any type of significant hike in interest rate on the already overleveraged Canadian population and you have a huge huge issue. This won't nearly have the same impact on a global scale, however domestically, this could be really bad.

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Jesus.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle31892652/

Because if it wasn't for the incomeless students buying those properties, they would totally be affordable for the rest of Vancouver.

The $57M by nine students included one house at $31M. If you take that house out, there is $26M bought by eight people, for an average of $3.25M. I know of many Vancouverites that have bought houses with a value greater than this. They are all Canadian citizens. That's not a large number, especially in that area. Eby asks how they acquired the mortgages, when about 15 seconds worth of research will tell you. Basically get 35% down, the property transfer taxes, and the first twelve months of payments into an account, and you can get a mortgage.

I get the outrage, but the data is presented with extreme bias. The article is click bait. If the debate could be structured around affordable housing, which I believe is a huge problem in Vancouver, instead of looking at the houses 99.99% of people will never afford, no matter the relative prices, it would go over much better. I think Vancouver needs to increase the density with more condos, and more transit infrastructure to move the people around. Marine and Cambie is a great start to this. There are several towers going in, with a Canada Line right there. Many of the houses in the surrounding 10 blocks are being bought up and built as townhomes and condos. Further up Cambie on 59th there are two huge projects soon to be started. Continue downtown on Cambie and you will see more of these, plus more Canada Line stops. These are good things. The city needs to continue to green light these projects, as well as look at ways to dissuade foreign buyers.

What the media, and the NDP shouldn't be doing is comparing the $31M house to someone on a Starbucks salary. Vancouver is unique to other cities as there is water on three sides and a mountain on the other. It can't sprawl like Calgary or Edmonton. It can only go up. Because of this, land continues to diminish when being bought to build condos. As land disappears, the supply has gone down and the demand goes up. That's where a lot of the price increases have come from. Some of this is from foreign buyers. Some of it is from local buyers. I feel putting the blame on the Chinese is inherently racist.

[afc wimbledon]

The problem with Vancouver is you can't catch a train 24 hours a day up and down the valley, if the French can run a train the equivalent distance from chilliwack or merit to Vancouver in half an hour to an hour why can't the province? There's no reason that Kelowna couldn't be a suburb of Vancouver.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

The problem with Vancouver is you can't catch a train 24 hours a day up and down the valley, if the French can run a train the equivalent distance from chilliwack or merit to Vancouver in half an hour to an hour why can't the province? There's no reason that Kelowna couldn't be a suburb of Vancouver.

The thing is as you fill up the valley, you use up all the good farm land.

[calgarygeologist]

Seattle is becoming the new hot spot for investors. I wouldn't mind a bit of an uptick in Calgary because my mom is planning on selling sometime in the near future in order to move back to Europe. A 10% to 20% price increase would be great for her.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

Because if it wasn't for the incomeless students buying those properties, they would totally be affordable for the rest of Vancouver.

The $57M by nine students included one house at $31M. If you take that house out, there is $26M bought by eight people, for an average of $3.25M. I know of many Vancouverites that have bought houses with a value greater than this. They are all Canadian citizens. That's not a large number, especially in that area. Eby asks how they acquired the mortgages, when about 15 seconds worth of research will tell you. Basically get 35% down, the property transfer taxes, and the first twelve months of payments into an account, and you can get a mortgage.

I get the outrage, but the data is presented with extreme bias. The article is click bait. If the debate could be structured around affordable housing, which I believe is a huge problem in Vancouver, instead of looking at the houses 99.99% of people will never afford, no matter the relative prices, it would go over much better. I think Vancouver needs to increase the density with more condos, and more transit infrastructure to move the people around. Marine and Cambie is a great start to this. There are several towers going in, with a Canada Line right there. Many of the houses in the surrounding 10 blocks are being bought up and built as townhomes and condos. Further up Cambie on 59th there are two huge projects soon to be started. Continue downtown on Cambie and you will see more of these, plus more Canada Line stops. These are good things. The city needs to continue to green light these projects, as well as look at ways to dissuade foreign buyers.

What the media, and the NDP shouldn't be doing is comparing the $31M house to someone on a Starbucks salary. Vancouver is unique to other cities as there is water on three sides and a mountain on the other. It can't sprawl like Calgary or Edmonton. It can only go up. Because of this, land continues to diminish when being bought to build condos. As land disappears, the supply has gone down and the demand goes up. That's where a lot of the price increases have come from. Some of this is from foreign buyers. Some of it is from local buyers. I feel putting the blame on the Chinese is inherently racist.

The outrage was always there, but back when it was only the lower and middle income people complaining, no one was listening. Now that it`s affecting Canada`s 1%, the issue is getting more air time.

It`s probably too late to do anything though. The minute they put in reasonable restrictions like those almost every other country in the world has, the market will crash.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

Because if it wasn't for the incomeless students buying those properties, they would totally be affordable for the rest of Vancouver.

The $57M by nine students included one house at $31M. If you take that house out, there is $26M bought by eight people, for an average of $3.25M. I know of many Vancouverites that have bought houses with a value greater than this. They are all Canadian citizens. That's not a large number, especially in that area. Eby asks how they acquired the mortgages, when about 15 seconds worth of research will tell you. Basically get 35% down, the property transfer taxes, and the first twelve months of payments into an account, and you can get a mortgage.

I get the outrage, but the data is presented with extreme bias. The article is click bait. If the debate could be structured around affordable housing, which I believe is a huge problem in Vancouver, instead of looking at the houses 99.99% of people will never afford, no matter the relative prices, it would go over much better. I think Vancouver needs to increase the density with more condos, and more transit infrastructure to move the people around. Marine and Cambie is a great start to this. There are several towers going in, with a Canada Line right there. Many of the houses in the surrounding 10 blocks are being bought up and built as townhomes and condos. Further up Cambie on 59th there are two huge projects soon to be started. Continue downtown on Cambie and you will see more of these, plus more Canada Line stops. These are good things. The city needs to continue to green light these projects, as well as look at ways to dissuade foreign buyers.

What the media, and the NDP shouldn't be doing is comparing the $31M house to someone on a Starbucks salary. Vancouver is unique to other cities as there is water on three sides and a mountain on the other. It can't sprawl like Calgary or Edmonton. It can only go up. Because of this, land continues to diminish when being bought to build condos. As land disappears, the supply has gone down and the demand goes up. That's where a lot of the price increases have come from. Some of this is from foreign buyers. Some of it is from local buyers. I feel putting the blame on the Chinese is inherently racist.

I'm with you, but in this case, the supply isn't going down, it's going up because of your sentence before. Building up should be lowering the cost because you can fit more people into a smaller space of land.

The market is way overinflated. I pay $100 more per month to rent a 1 room basement suite that's just barely inside Vancouver city limits than I do for the mortgage on my 3 story townhouse in Dalhousie a stones throw from the train station.

I don't see how any start up young person could live in this city.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I'm with you, but in this case, the supply isn't going down, it's going up because of your sentence before. Building up should be lowering the cost because you can fit more people into a smaller space of land.

The market is way overinflated. I pay $100 more per month to rent a 1 room basement suite that's just barely inside Vancouver city limits than I do for the mortgage on my 3 story townhouse in Dalhousie a stones throw from the train station.

I don't see how any start up young person could live in this city.

I think he was referring to the supply of land and detached housing which is always diminishing.

[Coach]

Ah I see. Building up is causing land bought by condos, and thus less for detached houses, where prices are going up.

[GirlySports]

i gotta dumb question. How does the money get here?

I mean sure if I were a foreign student in Canada, my rich parents could send some money over to me to pay for triple tuition costs. Perhaps 100K?

How does millions get here? Or are do these kids have rich parents already in Canada if so that's fine.

[keratosis]

Banks accept money transfers all the time.

[Azure]

There is also an issue with foreign buyers coming in and purchasing farm land at any price available, thereby driving up the prices. After putting together huge portions of land, they hire people to farm it.

This has caused prices for farm land to go absolutely crazy. Most normal Canadian farmers can't afford it anymore.

[snootchiebootchies]

Originally Posted by Azure

There is also an issue with foreign buyers coming in and purchasing farm land at any price available, thereby driving up the prices. After putting together huge portions of land, they hire people to farm it.

This has caused prices for farm land to go absolutely crazy. Most normal Canadian farmers can't afford it anymore.

I have not found this to be true in Alberta unless you consider Hutterite colonies to be foreign buyers.

[chedder]

Yes farmland inflation is absolutely happening in Alberta. You just have to look at the foothills from Calgary south to the US border. There are European landowners with oodles of money buying up section after section of rolling hills ranch land.

[Violator]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

i gotta dumb question. How does the money get here?

I mean sure if I were a foreign student in Canada, my rich parents could send some money over to me to pay for triple tuition costs. Perhaps 100K?

How does millions get here? Or are do these kids have rich parents already in Canada if so that's fine.

Look up the definition of satellite kid the parents feel bad about being away from the kids so they come over and buy stuff.worked with a guy his dad was a politician in India bought his son a brand new 7 series fully loaded.

[snootchiebootchies]

Originally Posted by chedder

Yes farmland inflation is absolutely happening in Alberta. You just have to look at the foothills from Calgary south to the US border. There are European landowners with oodles of money buying up section after section of rolling hills ranch land.

This is off-topic but yes, farmland inflation is happening (farmland has been a great investment over the past decade or so) but not because of foreign buyers. Good article here. http://www.country-guide.ca/2016/04/...or-sale/48704/

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

The problem with Vancouver is you can't catch a train 24 hours a day up and down the valley, if the French can run a train the equivalent distance from chilliwack or merit to Vancouver in half an hour to an hour why can't the province? There's no reason that Kelowna couldn't be a suburb of Vancouver.

The provincial government has handed over Vancouver to the Chinese on a silver platter. This issue needs to be contained not spread out. China owns Vancouver (the city isn't an economic driver in the country so no big loss outside of the fact a beautiful city is primarily owned by foreign investors) so there's not much that can be done outside of ensuring that this issue doesn't spread to other cities.

[Kavvy]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The provincial government has handed over Vancouver to the Chinese on a silver platter. This issue needs to be contained not spread out. China owns Vancouver (the city isn't an economic driver in the country so no big loss outside of the fact a beautiful city is primarily owned by foreign investors) so there's not much that can be done outside of ensuring that this issue doesn't spread to other cities.

Primarily owned by foreign investors - i.e. >50% of the Lower Mainland (or just Vancouver) homes and Condo's are owned by foreign investors? Please post your work.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Violator

Look up the definition of satellite kid the parents feel bad about being away from the kids so they come over and buy stuff.worked with a guy his dad was a politician in India bought his son a brand new 7 series fully loaded.

but can a person bankwire as much as they want? like millions without suspicion? Even if parents physicall come over they can only carry what? $5000 on the plane?

[Fuzz]

They probably setup a corporate entity. Corporations can do pretty much anything.