[PGT] Where is the defense? Flames lose to Avs 6-3

[NewFan]

I hope all that trade talks don't affect to the players. We talked we need to trade 1 of the goalies and now they playing bad. Then we talked that Wideman or Russell will be traded then they are doing bad. I think the players waiting some kind of changes and it affects the game.
Hope GM make changes soon and say to the team that now you are set and show me what you can do until trade deadline.

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Darren Haynes ‏@DarrenWHaynes 29s30 seconds ago
Last season after 13 games, 29 goals allowed.
This season after 13 games, 55 goals allowed.

Yeah, the problem is a real headscratcher.

[Stay Golden]

7 of the 10 losses by the Flames have been blowouts. When they lose they crash hard and seem to throw in the towel in last 10 min of the 3rd. Last year they took pride in scoring the most 3rd period goals in the NHL.
GAA per game worst in the NHL this year.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Buster

The 1 magical season in about 10 seasons is the McDavid draft year.

There is no justice.

People keep saying this but do you really think we would have won the lotto? Our awesome season probably cost us Marner or Provorov. McDavid was never going to happen.

I don't care about losing out on McDavid, I'm just mad that the Coilers got him. Any other team and I would've been fine with, even Toronto.

[Southside]

What is the status of Ferland and Bouma?

Not saying their return is the solution, just that it will necessitate some roster moves which might help.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Barnet Flame

Yeah, the problem is a real headscratcher.

But we need more second line 20 goal scorers! We need to score 5 goals to even have a chance of winning with how horrible the defensive side has been. And a lot of it has to do with the forwards defensive game.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

But we need more second line 20 goal scorers! We need to score 5 goals to even have a chance of winning with how horrible the defensive side has been. And a lot of it has to do with the forwards defensive game.

Some to do with F defensive game. Some to do with poor defending by D. Lots to do with goaltending.

[White Out 403]

It's easy to blame goaltending, believe me I love hating on Pavelec. But when all three Flames goaltenders are sub 900 the issue is defensive effort. Colorado shouldn't be putting up 42 shots. Being in the Pacific means it's not over yet... But the defense needs to compete more.

[kkaleR]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

Colorado shouldn't be putting up 42 shots.

Not that it matters, but it really seemed like the shot counters had been borrowed from Staples Center.

[saillias]

Even if you're fine with a losing year and declaring it a write-off season because of some rebuild philosophy, Hartley and his entire coaching staff - goalie coach especially has got to be on the hot seat.

We're getting blown out, nearly every game, by bad teams. We look awesome and competitive for the first half of games and then utterly fall apart. It's so bad the rationalizations have become "well these blowouts are closer games than the score indicates" really that's the best we've got right now.

To add to the tirefire, Hartley is playing Russell more minutes than any other player on this team - wtf? That's a solid way to tank. I'm dumbfounded because he continues to get worse and get more minutes. Colborne lead the forwards in ice time.

I know the leash for a Jack Adams winner should be longer by default but I'm starting to question his sanity

[troutman]

These three goalies were more than adequate last year. They didn't suddenly forget how to play.

Most of the problem has to do with how the team is paying in front of them.

[Armchair Quarterback]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

It's easy to blame goaltending, believe me I love hating on Pavelec. But when all three Flames goaltenders are sub 900 the issue is defensive effort. Colorado shouldn't be putting up 42 shots. Being in the Pacific me and it's not over yet... But the defense needs to compete more.

This. Sure Ramo is not the greatest goalie out there but how many goals last night were the result of absolute garbage play in our defensive end -- giveaways, missed passes, poor play, etc. Including at least one by Giordano who is supposed to be leading by example (never mind the new huge contract).

Ramo is not going to steal every game and bail out our crappy defense. We have to be more accountable and take care of our defensive play first.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by troutman

These three goalies were more than adequate last year. They didn't suddenly forget how to play.

Most of the problem has to do with how the team is paying in front of them.

I would tend to agree...

But there have been instances (last night's game is a good example) where the team has played decent, but basically every defensive lapse ended up a goal. I don't blame Ramo for the 4th goal (a MacKinnon slapper from the slot) since that was a defensive coverage gaff by the forward.

But you hope and pray your tender can bail you out from time to time even on defensive lapses. That key ingredient has been missing and it has proven to be detrimental to overall team confidence and performance. On top of that, the really great teams have a goalie who will "steal a game" or two as the saying goes.

Gosh, just so frustrating right now. This team looks good on paper. And has looked good for stretches this year too. Hopefully Brad and Bob turn this ship around and sail her to the promised land.

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

It's easy to blame goaltending, believe me I love hating on Pavelec. But when all three Flames goaltenders are sub 900 the issue is defensive effort. Colorado shouldn't be putting up 42 shots. Being in the Pacific me and it's not over yet... But the defense needs to compete more.

Agree it's not just goaltending. The D is butter soft physically especially removing players from the front of net, board battles, in the corner, defending the blue line. That about covers it
The goaltending coach should also be in the hotseat. Clearly not getting it done.

[Bourque's Twin]

Goaltending needs to be addressed ASAP. It's obvious that goaltending is the main problem when every team the Flames face throws as many shots as possible on net. And it's working.

Ramo, Hiller, and Ortio are not the answer.

I wish the second coming of Kipper was buried somewhere. Who's SJ's 3rd string goalie? Aaron Dell. Hmm. Might be worth a shot.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

Goaltending needs to be addressed ASAP. It's obvious that goaltending is the main problem when every team the Flames face throws as many shots as possible on net. And it's working.

Ramo, Hiller, and Ortio are not the answer.

I wish the second coming of Kipper was buried somewhere. Who's SJ's 3rd string goalie? Aaron Dell. Hmm. Might be worth a shot.

Hmm from Airdrie. I wouldn't trust an Albertan goalie. Give me a European or American.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Defensive zone just isn't a priority for this team.

-Poor battle for pucks
-Too much reliance on stick work and not enough on body work to get the puck
-Zone exits are not well organized
-Forwards are cheating too much up ice, leaving the defenders with too much burden
-Really poor awareness of where opposition is on the ice at times, leading to glorious chances in close

All of that lends itself to there being more high quality chances than you would like, but literally every single one of those chances ends up in the net. I can't remember the last big save a Flames goalie made to give the team a fighting chance to make up for their lapses.

Nobody is mentioning the poor luck this team is experiencing too. Ignoring the one call that went the Flames way in the last game against Edmonton, they have had 3 goals called back in the last 2 games. They were all the correct calls, but two were called back in the game against the Avs where the difference between being a goal and not was razor thin. Bennett could have had 3 goals in last night's game but ended up with just 1. That's crazy.

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by troutman

These three goalies were more than adequate last year. They didn't suddenly forget how to play.

Most of the problem has to do with how the team is paying in front of them.

Even the pre-season seems like a far-distant memory. Prior to the last game on Oct 3, these were the stat lines:

Hiller: 3 GP, 119 minutes, 1.01 GAA, 0.965 SV
Ortio: 3 GP, 148 minutes, 1.62 GAA, 0.946 SV
Ramo: 3 GP, 132 minutes, 1.82 GAA, 0.949 SV

Source: http://www.calgarysun.com/2015/10/02...alie-situation

NOBODY could have envisioned this type of start to the season. Simply putrid on multiple levels.

[tvp2003]

Heck, we should start playing our goalies like its preseason. Not saying that they're tired (or maybe they are from all the shots against) but Hartley should pull the starter halfway through the second period and put in the backup. Or switch it up after two periods. Anything to break the funk right now...

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by troutman

These three goalies were more than adequate last year. They didn't suddenly forget how to play.

Most of the problem has to do with how the team is paying in front of them.

No, but the confidence in goal is clearly not there, and its cascading through the entire team.

There are pivotal moments in a game where the goalie needs to make a save, and yes, he needs to bail out his team when there is a defensive mistake. This hasn't been happening at all for the Flames. Its not just letting in stinkers (which there have been many) but even just a regular unscreened shot here and there. At some point when the game is on the line, the goalie is there to keep the team alive and then the team can rally from a big save. Hasn't happened this year, too many goals have deflated the team at the wrong times.