Russia invades Ukraine

[Cappy]

Russia’s threats clearly stop at actual nato forces moving in. They have done nothing to stop the flow of weapons and matériels entering Ukraine. Governments are publicly stating the amount of materiel they are sending and when.

They just need to move some ballistic missiles to the polish ukraine border. Leave the keys in and let the Ukrainians take them. Oops

[peter12]

I think in the coming days we will probably start to see the tide turn against the brave Ukrainian forces. In the worst case scenario, I could see a Grozny or mini-Stalingrad-like battle around Kyiv with enormous casualties on both sides.

That said, Russia has already lost the war. NATO is completely unified, their army looks like a paper tiger, and they have completely isolated themselves from the global economy.

What an absolutely stunning course of events.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

The line has been established. If he attacks a Nato country - they will get involved. Ukraine is not a Nato country.

There's a reason why Finland and Sweden are considering joining Nato now as they are the two countries near Russia who are not in Nato (plus Moldova).

Finland and Sweden would be FAR more potent opponents than Ukraine.

[1qqaaz]

Assuming Russia eventually takes Ukraine, how long do we think the sanctions will stay in place?

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Assuming Russia eventually takes Ukraine, how long do we think the sanctions will stay in place?

I'd guess permanently untill they leave.

[Krovikan]

Originally Posted by peter12

Finland and Sweden would be FAR more potent opponents than Ukraine.

Not according to https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing.php

Ukraine: 22
Sweden: 25
Finland: 59


Though the Fins have kicked the #### out of Russia before with a much weaker military.

[Zoller]

Originally Posted by peter12

I think in the coming days we will probably start to see the tide turn against the brave Ukrainian forces. In the worst case scenario, I could see a Grozny or mini-Stalingrad-like battle around Kyiv with enormous casualties on both sides.

That said, Russia has already lost the war. NATO is completely unified, their army looks like a paper tiger, and they have completely isolated themselves from the global economy.

What an absolutely stunning course of events.

Paper tiger that hasn't used it's artillery and air force yet.

The worst is yet to come. Thermobaric weapons will make that missile strike on that apartment building look like childs play.

I fear this initial incursion was only bait to concentrate the Ukrainian defenses before bombing them.

No one knows why he started with small incursion forces like this.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Krovikan

Not according to https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing.php

Ukraine: 22
Sweden: 25
Finland: 59


Though the Fins have kicked the #### out of Russia before with a much weaker military.

And Ukraine, having about 9 times as many people, would likely be much more difficult to hold.

[surferguy]

I too fear that Ukraine will not win this war. It’s fantastic to see the Bravado and will of the Ukrainian people but remember this is also largely propaganda as this point as well. We haven’t heard of death tolls from the U army, we haven’t heard tallies of lost tanks, planes or soldiers etc.

The next thing to be released will be the death toll of civilizations to further galvanize the west for Ukraine but the reality is that the Russian Army is that much larger with weapons that can change the face of a city in seconds and unfortunately Russia will use them.

I fear that things will go from terrible to horrible in the near future. The city of Kiev will be unrecognizable if the Russians open the full fury they have in their arsenal. They may look bumbly at the moment, but they will learn and become better and sadly more lethal.

Russia has already lost this war in the grand scale but as the Russian warship slowly slips below water level it will drag the Ukrainians down with them. It is inconceivably sad and woefully unnecessary.


Edit: better wording

[KootenayFlamesFan]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1498466743223734274

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Krovikan

Not according to https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing.php

Ukraine: 22
Sweden: 25
Finland: 59


Though the Fins have kicked the #### out of Russia before with a much weaker military.

Both countries have more defensible terrain and entirely westernized militaries.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Putin wins by taking these steps. Putin loses with nuclear war. Putin likes to win.

The threat of nukes is his ace in the hole - he knows everyone will back off and let him have his little win this time (each time)

I respect your thinking here but you’ve sort of just left out why a man who likes to win is just going to let NATO win.

Nuclear is effective beyond the threat. It can also be effective in beating your opponent into submission. Nuclear powers know this, and they know the world can withstand a certain number of nuclear strikes before we’re all screwed. The goal at that point is going until your opponent says mercy and hoping they stop before it’s too late.

I’m extremely confident the US and other nuclear powers know exactly how serious Putin’s threat is, and are acting accordingly.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I respect your thinking here but you’ve sort of just left out why a man who likes to win is just going to let NATO win.

Nuclear is effective beyond the threat. It can also be effective in beating your opponent into submission. Nuclear powers know this, and they know the world can withstand a certain number of nuclear strikes before we’re all screwed. The goal at that point is going until your opponent says mercy and hoping they stop before it’s too late.

I’m extremely confident the US and other nuclear powers know exactly how serious Putin’s threat is, and are acting accordingly.

Well I never said he would just let NATO win.

As for actually utilizing nuclear weapons, they are only effective if you have superiority, and an opportunity to win (before you don't exist any more). Russia is fully aware that they cannot utilize these weapons without triggering a full and total response from NATO. There is no 'effective' usage here.

Oh, and I agree 100% with your final comment.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1498474368392957952

[nik-]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Assuming Russia eventually takes Ukraine, how long do we think the sanctions will stay in place?

However long it takes for the cash reserves they're using to prop up the economy up to run out plus the time it takes to build gallows.

[TherapyforGlencross]

I’m not sure if this is the correct thread to post this on, but alas. I came across this article and thought as Canadians we should know more about our leaders.

C. Freeland’s history with Ukraine and the USSR:


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/...nd-respect-of/

All of this took place under the watchful eye of the KGB, which surveilled Ms. Freeland. Its officers tailed her wherever she went; tapped her phone calls to Ukrainians abroad; bugged her accommodation; read her mail; and had an informer, codenamed Slav, insert himself into Ms. Freeland’s circle and gain the young Canadian’s trust.

Freeland warns Canadians to beware of Russian disinformation

But Ms. Freeland knew the rules of the road. She used a Canadian diplomat at the embassy in Moscow, known to the KGB as Bison and suspected of being a spy, to send material abroad in a diplomatic pouch that could not be intercepted or read.

She increasingly avoided major gatherings, lest her participation draw too much attention to her. And the Soviet secret police’s subtler attempts to curtail her activities failed: Her teacher at Kyiv’s Taras Shevchenko University, on the KGB’s orders, increased her workload. But the student, ostensibly on a visa to study Ukrainian, was so fluent that she did not need to attend class in the first place in order to make grades – much to the KGB’s chagrin.

Ms. Freeland’s time in the Soviet Union came to an end when customs agents at Moscow’s Sheremetyevo airport, tipped off by the KGB, searched her luggage as she returned from a trip to London and found anti-Soviet materials. Even more worrying, they discovered a veritable how-to guide for running an election destined for use by non-Communist Party candidates campaigning for Ukrainian independence in the Soviet Union’s first-ever free elections. She was denied re-entry on March 31, 1989.

Fascinating article. Go Chrystia!

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by TherapyforGlencross

I’m not sure if this is the correct thread to post this on, but alas. I came across this article and thought as Canadians we should know more about our leaders.

C. Freeland’s history with Ukraine and the USSR:


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/...nd-respect-of/



Fascinating article. Go Chrystia!

She is the baddest mofo in Parliament. and you have idiots on here calling her a moron...

[FurnaceFace]

What I wonder, is why this long column of vehicles isn’t getting attacked? I would think they’d be a pretty tasty target.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by TherapyforGlencross

I’m not sure if this is the correct thread to post this on, but alas. I came across this article and thought as Canadians we should know more about our leaders.

C. Freeland’s history with Ukraine and the USSR:


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/...nd-respect-of/





Fascinating article. Go Chrystia!

This is fricking awesome.

[Southside]

I've been thinking the same and trust that there are rationale explanations. Air power perhaps. It just looks like a few munitions in the right places could tear that column apart and present the Russians with a massive roadblock.