Location: Oklahoma - Where they call a puck a ball...
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Originally Posted by valo403
Then why don't other countries have the same viewpoint despite having their own historical events to draw upon? Why don't the French feel like they need to own guns?
I am not debating the outcome of the stats, and what they represent. I am pointing out the fact that they aren't even remotely close to what Mikey is claiming. If you are going to make statistical claims, don't make ridiculously false ones.
Well that wasn't really what I was looking for. The question is why are Americans so different that they point to history as justification while other nations with similar, or more extreme, histories do not? To date I've never heard a pro-gun person give an intelligent answer to this, which makes it very hard for me to buy the history argument.
Must be why Africa is so full of guns. They are worried about Americans coming over and kidnapping them and putting them to work for no pay.
It happened once.
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Well that wasn't really what I was looking for. The question is why are Americans so different that they point to history as justification while other nations with similar, or more extreme, histories do not? To date I've never heard a pro-gun person give an intelligent answer to this, which makes it very hard for me to buy the history argument.
Please...don't lump all pro-gun people in with the pro-2nd amendment crowd. There are those of us that enjoy firearms for reasons that have nothing to do with history or a very outdated document.
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Please...don't lump all pro-gun people in with the pro-2nd amendment crowd. There are those of us that enjoy firearms for reasons that have nothing to do with history or a very outdated document.
Fair enough, that's a good point. I'm just trying to understand the mentality of people who view gun control as an attack on their liberty and such. It makes no sense to me.
Location: Oklahoma - Where they call a puck a ball...
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Originally Posted by valo403
Fair enough, that's a good point. I'm just trying to understand the mentality of people who view gun control as an attack on their liberty and such. It makes no sense to me.
I haven't really seen an American really express that view here to be honest, maybe PIMking to an extent.
I haven't really seen an American really express that view here to be honest, maybe PIMking to an extent.
He definitely bordered on that territory, but he's definitely not alone. That view is pretty prominent among a lot of the louder gun rights crowd, and the NRA certainly comes pretty close to that viewpoint itself.
It just feels like the fear is ratcheted up WAY past any common sense.
Since when does the world operate on common sense? It goes both ways, the ridiculous fear mongering comes from both sides of the spectrum so you get a polarized population ready to go at each others throats.
Since when does the world operate on common sense? It goes both ways, the ridiculous fear mongering comes from both sides of the spectrum so you get a polarized population ready to go at each others throats.
Well when it comes to this topic most other western nations display a pretty good amount of common sense.
Where's the fear mongering from the other side of the spectrum? I haven't heard anybody making any outlandish claims about what will happen if stricter gun measures aren't introduced, but I've heard plenty of Mikey style paranoia from the 2nd Amendment crowd.
Couple of basic historic points here, first the British Monarchy in 1776 was not particularly tyranical by the standards of the day, life in the US was pretty much the same as life in the UK and Canada both before and after the revoloution (unless you were Black).
Second it was not guns in the hands of the population that freed the US, it was guns in the hands of the French, at the time the US decided to revolt (which incidently was after the UK had cleared out the French and subdued the natives, didn't hear any complaints about that awefull George the Third while there was a threat from those quarters in N America) the UK was locked in a death struggle with France, were it not for that the US would have faced the full might of the British Empire and would not have fallen, it is actually a measure of how liberal and untyranical the british empire was that after they had dealt with France the UK didn't decide to use its overwhelming superiority to retake the US after 1815.
It is also ironic for all the talk of tyranny and freedom the only people that were really affected by the revoloution were the blacks, had the British actually put some effort into keeping N America slavery would have ended in the late 18th century and blacks would not had to endure 200 more years of slavery lynching and Jim Crow disenfranchisement.
Didn't Thomas Jefferson believe the constitution should be re-written every 20 years? Something along the lines of 'the dead should not rule the living'. Why do people in 2013 have to live by rules written 240 years ago?
Times change, people change, rules change. People act like adding stricter gun control or limiting magazine sizes or registering their guns is the same as taking them away. I'm in the camp that I enjoy guns, shot them from time to time and they can be enjoyable but no one needs an AR-15 because it's only purpose is to kill people or have fun. Well one outweighs the other IMO when 20 children are shot dead within seconds. You don't need an AR-15 and 30 bullet magazine to hunt a dear, or if you do get a better hobby because you have a terrible shot.
There is a happy medium to all this to keep people safe while still having access to guns but unfortunately the NRA types don't want to compromise because "Obama is coming". You are have to remember as much as they claim to be all about their members rights their only concern is for the gun manufactures and sales. The fact the gun show loophole is still open proves that. It's not about safety, it's about sales.
Never been prouder to be a Canadian!
And please for the love of god please stop bringing up the tyranny angle of this. It's not going to happen and even if it did you wouldn't stand a chance regardless. How did France do against Hilter's Germany? Did he take away their guns first too?
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Didn't Thomas Jefferson believe the constitution should be re-written every 20 years? Something along the lines of 'the dead should not rule the living'. Why do people in 2013 have to live by rules written 240 years ago?
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