So tell me about wills.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Does anyone know if there's a phone number with the court house were you can get a status on your probate application?

Call Surrogate Court - press "0". Have your file number ready. They don't always answer the phone, so try again.

Phone: (403) 297-7281

Applications filed on paper (not digital service) take 3-4 months for a Grant to issue.

[taxbuster]

I'm a bit surprised that nobody here (at least that I saw) touched on the subject of using a Trust post mortem. There are a few advantages for us (admittedly now in the "Geriatric Dinner Crew" mode....thanks Tanny!) who might happen to be over 65, as well as for those younger.


First and foremost, for those who may have significant assets OR cannot "trust" (for lack of a better word) one or more of their heirs or their heirs' spouses, a Trust is a private document. Addiction issues are common-ish and a parent may wish to ensure that they are not furthering problems should they predecease an addicted child.



A Will is public. Provisions within a Trust, however, remain between the creator of the trust and whoever is appointed as Trustee, and frequently are accompanied by a "side letter"...which is non-binding but sets out the individual's desires in a more friendly manner.


For those over 65 an AlterEgo Trust or a Joint Partner Trust can ease tax considerations and also maintain that same "non-public" position such that the family is not entitled to know what there is and "who got what". Not cheap...and typically starting at $10K to write, but they serve a distinct purpose that a Will does not.


Worth consideration for those in the right circumstances.


One way or another...for the sake of others in your family, if you don't have a Will and DO have some assets, please make a Will. Yes, it's unpleasant. But it's necessary.


And, if you are an Executor, you are generally personally liable for various issues under your fiduciary management...and that is why professional advice is strongly recommended.

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by troutman

Call Surrogate Court - press "0". Have your file number ready. They don't always answer the phone, so try again.

Phone: (403) 297-7281

Applications filed on paper (not digital service) take 3-4 months for a Grant to issue.

Or just get firebug to do it and it takes like a week.

[Fuzzy14]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

I'm a bit surprised that nobody here (at least that I saw) touched on the subject of using a Trust post mortem. There are a few advantages for us (admittedly now in the "Geriatric Dinner Crew" mode....thanks Tanny!) who might happen to be over 65, as well as for those younger.


First and foremost, for those who may have significant assets OR cannot "trust" (for lack of a better word) one or more of their heirs or their heirs' spouses, a Trust is a private document. Addiction issues are common-ish and a parent may wish to ensure that they are not furthering problems should they predecease an addicted child.



A Will is public. Provisions within a Trust, however, remain between the creator of the trust and whoever is appointed as Trustee, and frequently are accompanied by a "side letter"...which is non-binding but sets out the individual's desires in a more friendly manner.


For those over 65 an AlterEgo Trust or a Joint Partner Trust can ease tax considerations and also maintain that same "non-public" position such that the family is not entitled to know what there is and "who got what". Not cheap...and typically starting at $10K to write, but they serve a distinct purpose that a Will does not.


Worth consideration for those in the right circumstances.


One way or another...for the sake of others in your family, if you don't have a Will and DO have some assets, please make a Will. Yes, it's unpleasant. But it's necessary.


And, if you are an Executor, you are generally personally liable for various issues under your fiduciary management...and that is why professional advice is strongly recommended.

See post #45

Alter-Ego trusts are a great vehicle which a lot of advisers either don't understand, or in many cases, can't be bothered to take on the administrative burden of putting in place. They are a super valuable planning tool, and as the world of estates litigation continue to grow, should be part of many people's estate planning.

[Erick Estrada]

Since I started this thread I feel obligated to update. So I eventually got probate and new owners took possession of my aunt's place last week so all the hard stuff is out of the way. Looking back it was more of a hassle doing it myself without going through lawyers but it was tolerable mostly because her estate was pretty basic without multiple properties, vehicles, or any large debts. Having to deal with the public trustee due to minors named in the will was the most difficult part as they were pretty slack and delayed the probate procedure. It was a good learning experience but for my dad's estate I will most certainly get a lawyer. Thanks to all that replied or PM'd with good information. That's what makes this forum such a great place and keeps me coming back. Lots of good people with good advice.

[Toast_Man]

Does anyone have experience filing a T3 for an estate? I'm an executor on an estate and the accountant who helped file the last tax return has completely flaked on me for the T3.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Toast_Man

Does anyone have experience filing a T3 for an estate? I'm an executor on an estate and the accountant who helped file the last tax return has completely flaked on me for the T3.

If Locke can't do it, I can send you a few names.

[Locke]

Give me some details (via PM) and I can help you or point you in the right direction.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Toast_Man

Does anyone have experience filing a T3 for an estate? I'm an executor on an estate and the accountant who helped file the last tax return has completely flaked on me for the T3.

Make sure you read up on the new T3 filing requirements starting December 30, 2023. Some people were very upset about scrambling to obtain the additional information being demanded by CRA, but you can't really file a return without that additional data. The good thing is that the vast majority of these changes only really require you to collect this data once.

Also, include the date the trust was created with the materials so that you are aware when the 21 year rule will happen. You don't want a nasty tax bill with interest and penalties. It's actually a rare situation the cash flow that often frustrates people more than taxes with the 21 year rule. Taxes suck, but after 21 years, it might be more panic in figuring out how to get hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars to pay for the taxes owing on the deemed disposition.

You might need appraisals for the 21 year filing. Properties aren't too bad to get appraisals for, but if you've put company shares in there, those are much more challenging to get appraisals for.

[activeStick]

My parents had one done years ago and they gave me a copy and it sits somewhere in storage. Never looked at it... too sad to think about.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by activeStick

My parents had one done years ago and they gave me a copy and it sits somewhere in storage. Never looked at it... too sad to think about.

Dude you should read it over and make sure it still makes sense and that there isn't anything weird in it you'll need clarification on. This is going to happen one day. If they aren't around to straighten out any issues it'll make things a metric f-ton harder for you to manage your grief and sort out issues. If you are the executor, it's actually pretty remiss of you to not have read it. Being an executor is a super important and big job.

If you're just a beneficiary and somebody else is going to be the executor it doesn't matter as much, but you should still read it over if for no other reason than to flag potential problems in order to help them/their estate. Your perspective is important because you're going to be one of the ones left dealing with the fall out of their passing. Ounce of prevention and all.

[Toast_Man]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Dude you should read it over and make sure it still makes sense and that there isn't anything weird in it you'll need clarification on. This is going to happen one day. If they aren't around to straighten out any issues it'll make things a metric f-ton harder for you to manage your grief and sort out issues. If you are the executor, it's actually pretty remiss of you to not have read it. Being an executor is a super important and big job.

If you're just a beneficiary and somebody else is going to be the executor it doesn't matter as much, but you should still read it over if for no other reason than to flag potential problems in order to help them/their estate. Your perspective is important because you're going to be one of the ones left dealing with the fall out of their passing. Ounce of prevention and all.

I can't recommend this enough. Hind sight being what it is, I wish I had sat down with my Dad and gone over his will.

[Manhattanboy]

Here’s an interesting question for Trout and some of the estate lawyers:

Are wills discoverable prior to the testator’s death? Or put simply, does a person have a right to see another’s will?

For example in the case of marriage or relationship breakdown and resulting proceedings, can the wife or girlfriend require the husband or boyfriend to produce a copy of the latter’s will to see the extent of the bequests (if any) to the former? I am wondering more about a common law relationship breakdown.

Second question, do the testator and witnesses have to initial each page of a will?

Thanks.

[troutman]

A will is not usually relevant until someone dies. A person can always revoke or make a new will right up to the end if they are competent. Sometimes a Power of Attoney or Personal Directive directs that the will can be referred to before death.

It is good practice to initial every page, but not a requirement:

https://kings-printer.alberta.ca/126...8&display=html

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by troutman

A will is not usually relevant until someone dies. A person can always revoke or make a new will right up to the end if they are competent. Sometimes a Power of Attoney or Personal Directive directs that the will can be referred to before death.

It is good practice to initial every page, but not a requirement:

https://kings-printer.alberta.ca/126...8&display=html

What about a prior will? Do you think it is discoverable in litigation? Certainly a person can shred it any time they want?

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

What about a prior will? Do you think it is discoverable in litigation? Certainly a person can shred it any time they want?

I thought taxbuster said that wills were public in a previous post? It's post mortem trusts and intervivos trusts that are private?

Can someone confirm whether this is true and Canadian wills prepared by a professional (ie: Lawyer) are registered in some type of database (assuming it's not done by a non-professional for a will that isn't registered into a system)?

[MoneyGuy]

Wills, once probated, are public documents.

[Manhattanboy]

My question had to do with prior to death. Whether in a relationship breakdown a person is entitled to see the will of their ex-partner. To be used as evidence as part of a claim for spousal or other support.

[Fuzzy14]

One of the litigators trolling around may be able to provide a better answer, but I suspect any such request would remain subject to materiality and relevance in the context of the litigation. If the subject person refused to provide it in their disclosure, then it would to the requesting party to apply to the court to compel the disclosure, and in doing so satisfy the court that it's relevant and material to the litigation.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Dude you should read it over and make sure it still makes sense and that there isn't anything weird in it you'll need clarification on. This is going to happen one day. If they aren't around to straighten out any issues it'll make things a metric f-ton harder for you to manage your grief and sort out issues. If you are the executor, it's actually pretty remiss of you to not have read it. Being an executor is a super important and big job.

If you're just a beneficiary and somebody else is going to be the executor it doesn't matter as much, but you should still read it over if for no other reason than to flag potential problems in order to help them/their estate. Your perspective is important because you're going to be one of the ones left dealing with the fall out of their passing. Ounce of prevention and all.

Very much this. I am my parents Executor, and am an 'in case needed' one for my brother. I've reviewed both very well, and spoken to both my parents and my brother to make sure that I understood what they wanted. It is a dark topic, to be sure, but I feel it's better to be prepared to deal with it than to wing it when it comes up.