[Trade] Flames acquire Mike Smith (25% retained) for Chad Johnson, Brandon Hickey, & cond 3rd

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Seriously?? Tim Thomas won a Stanley Cup at the age of 37 in 2011. But it really depends on what the poster means by "success." I would say that the expectations on the Flames with Smith in goal should be at least two or three playoff series' wins.

Over his two seasons or just one? My expectations are a non wild card playoff spot and maybe a second round win. All in this upcoming season. Barring an utter pooping of the bed by Smith, The flames should easy get at least ten more points than last season

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Seriously?? Tim Thomas won a Stanley Cup at the age of 37 in 2011. But it really depends on what the poster means by "success." I would say that the expectations on the Flames with Smith in goal should be at least two or three playoff series' wins.

Why? They are a bubble team. Elliott had a meltdown but is Smith really any better? If so, why?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Paraphrasing, Tre is again handling goaltending like a live grenade.

It's obvious Smith is not a long term solution.

There is still time left in the off season, and I get the idea that Vegas can have a different ask for a truly desperate team.

But if we enter the season with Smith, as it appears we will, then what the heck, bring back the 3 headed monster.

If the Flames enter the season with Smith, they should be poised to compete for a playoff spot. I don't see the problem here for the 2017–18 season.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Why? They are a bubble team. Elliott had a meltdown but is Smith really any better? If so, why?

Because he has proven to be a relatively more consistent starting goalie. Elliott's playoff performance was a little bit of a surprise, and I don't think we should come to expect the same from every other goalie on the roster.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Over his two seasons or just one? My expectations are a non wild card playoff spot and maybe a second round win. All in this upcoming season. Barring an utter pooping of the bed by Smith, The flames should easy get at least ten more points than last season

I think two or three playoff round wins in the next two seasons is a realistic goal. I expect the team to compete for the Division and to win a round this year. Another round this year is gravy.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

If the Flames enter the season with Smith, they should be poised to compete for a playoff spot. I don't see the problem here for the 2017–18 season.

Fair enough. We shall see. I was excited by what other teams saw as exposable goalies. And realize that McPhee is drafting, not Tre.

I don't like Smith, but he can always go ahead and win me over.

I generally agree that good team can overcome average goaltending (hence cups for Crawford, for example). Smith is old and 5 years removed from anything notable.

Personally I would prefer to see something with longer term likelihood of being useful now and hope we don't hurt ourselves by burying the upcoming stable under stopgaps past their prime

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Yeah, it's complicated but another thing Dougie Hamilton (or any good top pairing Dman for that matter) does is help prevent goals, not just contribute offense.

I didn't account for that either.

My point is, a high end skater (especially Dmen and centers) are much harder to replace and make more of a difference to their team winning than a high end goaltender, because downgrading that high end goaltender to just an average goaltender (which is easy to do) doesn't subtract from the team as much as taking out a high end skater would.

Tell that to the Canadians when Carey Price goes down.

A high end goal tender going down isn't easy to replace.

The Kings missed the playoffs the moment Quick was injured, although they had a decent in-house replacement (an average goalie).

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Locke

I think he was going a bit further back than that. Into Brathwaite, Kidd, etc.

Vernon and Kipper aside, the Flames have an almost organizational policy of bad goalies.

Could be worse. Look at the Flyers. Take the last 25 years of Flames goaltending and subtract Kipper. Shows you how long a team can struggle to find a reliable starter.

[GordonBlue]

Smith is exactly what the flames need. a proven fix for the short term until the younger guys are ready to step up.
considering what's out there for short term goalie solutions, Smith is about as good as you can get.

I just hate his flopping and embellishing and how proud he is of doing it. wish the refs wouldn't let him get away with it so much. it makes me really dislike the guy.

[Erick Estrada]

Lets hope the trend under Treliving of goaltenders performing worse for the Flames than their career averages ends with Smith. I would have felt better had the organization brought in a new goalie coach and started fresh but at 35 Smith is what he is and I don't know how Sigalet could alter his game for the worse. As for the backup if they bring a veteran in I hope it's a one year deal because we need to find out more about Gillies in the last year of Smith's contract.

[Toonage]

This is a goalie Treliving knows very well. If he sees a dip in performance or play that is out of the ordinary for Smith I'm sure he'll have words with the goaltending coach (after speaking with Smith, and Gulutzan of course).

[iloveicedhockey]

I think it's very difficult to find a genuine starter that teams are willing to let go of. Once bishop was off the table, it seems that the decision was made for a stop gap, but obviously that isn't something you broadcast, otherwise trade partners know your need and exploit it.

I think the organisation has a lot of confidence that one of Gillies, Parsons or rittich are legitimately going to take the starting job, and if that's their assessment, I'm fine with the stop gap option.

We can't all just assume that every good back up is Cam Talbot, and it's not like the oilers hit first time on a goalie either.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Why? They are a bubble team. Elliott had a meltdown but is Smith really any better? If so, why?

Anyone saying Smith is a huge upgrade on Elliot isn't really being fair about their analysis.

Smith's playoff resume is largely non-existent minus a brief run 6 years ago. His regular season numbers are good but not spectacular either.....I view this a a lateral move with a slight upside over bringing back Elliot. Nothing more.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Anyone saying Smith is a huge upgrade on Elliot isn't really being fair about their analysis.

Smith's playoff resume is largely non-existent minus a brief run 6 years ago. His regular season numbers are good but not spectacular either.....I view this a a lateral move with a slight upside over bringing back Elliot. Nothing more.

I don't think anyone has suggested that this is a huge upgrade on Elliott, but numbers from last season do seem to indicate that Smith does provide a tangible upgrade.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don't think anyone has suggested that this is a huge upgrade on Elliott, but numbers from last season do seem to indicate that Smith does provide a tangible upgrade.

More than anything, I think he is pretty consistent?
This is key for me. Not sure the Flames need a guy to stand on his head, but all those cheap goals have to be stopped.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

More than anything, I think he is pretty consistent?

This is key for me. Not sure the Flames need a guy to stand on his head, but all those cheap goals have to be stopped.

Yeah, that is basically my take as well. Smith's tendency to play the puck a lot also helps the Flames, I think.

[Weitz]

I'm curious to see how Smith plays away from Tippet's defensive system. Also being able to catch his many angry outbursts this year will be entertaining.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

For me, Smith is a marginal upgrade on Elliott, if for nothing else that he won't be dogged all year for his crappy playoff performance from last year. Hopefully, Smith can provide average goaltending with a few steals along the way. I think he is fully capable of that.

Just as importantly, although some have derogatively called this "stop-gap", I think that is entirely the point of the acquisition. They weren't looking for a long term savior, as I think this trade indicates they feel they have some home-grown talent that will step up. They aren't ready yet, but I think this is in some way a vote of confidence that the young guys will be ready in a couple of years.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Tell that to the Canadians when Carey Price goes down.

A high end goal tender going down isn't easy to replace.

The Kings missed the playoffs the moment Quick was injured, although they had a decent in-house replacement (an average goalie).

First of all Price is not a high end goaltender, he's inhuman. There are always exceptions.

Second, I didn't say high end goalies are easy to replace, I said you can replace high end goaltending (0.925%) with average goaltending (0.915%) and not suffer that much because of it.

If you try to replace it with average goaltending (0.915%) and end up getting terrible goaltending (< 0.905%) then you are in trouble. Unfortunately that's what happened to the Flames going from 2014/15 to 2015/16...it just happened to be the same goalie is all.

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

For me, Smith is a marginal upgrade on Elliott, if for nothing else that he won't be dogged all year for his crappy playoff performance from last year. Hopefully, Smith can provide average goaltending with a few steals along the way. I think he is fully capable of that.

Just as importantly, although some have derogatively called this "stop-gap", I think that is entirely the point of the acquisition. They weren't looking for a long term savior, as I think this trade indicates they feel they have some home-grown talent that will step up. They aren't ready yet, but I think this is in some way a vote of confidence that the young guys will be ready in a couple of years.

^^ Nailed it. Smith is probably only a slight upgrade on Elliott, but the key is that Smith has the reputation as being capable of starting 55+ games and being a consistent, number one guy. Elliott has NEVER done that and would be coming back with last year's playoff meltdown looming over his head.

I also think Smith was the best "fit" in terms of organizational need given our goalie prospects. A guy like Raanta may have better/longer term upside, but that's not what the team needs or is prepared to pay for at this stage (especially if there is a risk that he'll flop -- another step back in 2017/18 would be devastating for the organization IMO, so better to go with a safer, more sure bet).