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Old 03-19-2017, 09:57 PM   #781
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I stand behind my comment that the next 2-3 games would be a good test of GG and the system. Reading it back, I'm not terribly happy with my second paragraph either :P

When things are going well, it's logical to maintain the status quo. But it's when the going gets tough that you need to make (major or minor) adjustments, and in this case, see if the locker room is receptive to it. Having just watched the movie "Sully", he had flown aircraft for 40 years, but he'll be known for his what he did in that one critical flight.

At the time of my comment, we had just lost to BOS, and I didn't want to see the Flames go on to lose the next 2-3 games (resulting in being losers of 3 of 4). So far, we're 1-1 since the streak and about to go 2-1 after tonight's LA game, so GG gets full marks/credit for making the right adjustments to keep the winning ways going.

I don't hate GG nor want him fired. But I was critical of decisions early in the season (Chiasson on 1st line and 1st unit PP, Wideman TOI vs D.Hamilton, PP zone entry drop pass). I'll eat crow on saying that the 10-game win streak was solely luck, but I can't see Elloitt's SV% (0.944) being sustainable, and Johnny has not been a >1.0PPG player in the past.
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Old 03-19-2017, 10:12 PM   #782
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I stand behind my comment that the next 2-3 games would be a good test of GG and the system. Reading it back, I'm not terribly happy with my second paragraph either :P

When things are going well, it's logical to maintain the status quo. But it's when the going gets tough that you need to make (major or minor) adjustments, and in this case, see if the locker room is receptive to it. Having just watched the movie "Sully", he had flown aircraft for 40 years, but he'll be known for his what he did in that one critical flight.

At the time of my comment, we had just lost to BOS, and I didn't want to see the Flames go on to lose the next 2-3 games (resulting in being losers of 3 of 4). So far, we're 1-1 since the streak and about to go 2-1 after tonight's LA game, so GG gets full marks/credit for making the right adjustments to keep the winning ways going.

I don't hate GG nor want him fired. But I was critical of decisions early in the season (Chiasson on 1st line and 1st unit PP, Wideman TOI vs D.Hamilton, PP zone entry drop pass). I'll eat crow on saying that the 10-game win streak was solely luck, but I can't see Elloitt's SV% (0.944) being sustainable, and Johnny has not been a >1.0PPG player in the past.
Don't be Donald Trump.

Just retract your earlier false statements and say you're sorry.
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Old 03-19-2017, 10:29 PM   #783
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Don't be Donald Trump.

Just retract your earlier false statements and say you're sorry.
Never! 'Cause if I'm wrong, it means the Flames are winning, and I like them winning better.
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Old 03-19-2017, 10:32 PM   #784
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I felt like the rebuild was going pretty good, and with the right coach we might have something. Needless to say, the first couple months were pretty scary but wow does it ever look more and more like BT crushed the coaching hire right outta the park.
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Old 03-19-2017, 10:42 PM   #785
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Each passing game Provesmi was way off in my hate for Gulutzan and Elliott. I questioned both moves and for the first few months it didn't look good but this incredible streak has me eating plenty of crow
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Old 03-19-2017, 10:44 PM   #786
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This crow is becoming too big to eat ... just the way I like eating crow !
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Old 03-19-2017, 11:02 PM   #787
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30-0-1 when taking a lead into the final period. They are just deadly protecting the lead.
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Old 03-20-2017, 12:41 AM   #788
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I haven't seen a flames team with this kind of neutral zone presence and defensive composure in ages. Their third period was a clinic in shutdown defensive hockey, which doesn't only mean off-puck play in your own zone, but also puck management, keeping the puck moving in the right direction, and pressing all over the ice to force turnovers and recovering the puck with layers of defence. The structure showed well and kept a league-leading possession team to less than 50%

The best part is that our full press and strong transition game also help our offence generate more rushes and chances, while our cycle game has also developed over the season
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Old 03-20-2017, 12:52 AM   #789
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^ I agree with a lot of this.

But tonight, you have a Darryl team down by 2. Darryl's MO was to keep games tight, and not overcome sizeable deficits, at least on a regular basis.

Keenan and Hartley, sure, but I don't see LA under Sutter as a team that is comfortable enough with having a multi goal deficit to expect to overcome it more often than not.

But yes, Calgary wasn't going to let it happen.
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Old 03-20-2017, 10:06 AM   #790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowlord View Post
I stand behind my comment that the next 2-3 games would be a good test of GG and the system. Reading it back, I'm not terribly happy with my second paragraph either :P

When things are going well, it's logical to maintain the status quo. But it's when the going gets tough that you need to make (major or minor) adjustments, and in this case, see if the locker room is receptive to it. Having just watched the movie "Sully", he had flown aircraft for 40 years, but he'll be known for his what he did in that one critical flight.

At the time of my comment, we had just lost to BOS, and I didn't want to see the Flames go on to lose the next 2-3 games (resulting in being losers of 3 of 4). So far, we're 1-1 since the streak and about to go 2-1 after tonight's LA game, so GG gets full marks/credit for making the right adjustments to keep the winning ways going.

I don't hate GG nor want him fired. But I was critical of decisions early in the season (Chiasson on 1st line and 1st unit PP, Wideman TOI vs D.Hamilton, PP zone entry drop pass). I'll eat crow on saying that the 10-game win streak was solely luck, but I can't see Elloitt's SV% (0.944) being sustainable, and Johnny has not been a >1.0PPG player in the past.
Well obviously a 0.944 is unsustainable, but even if that drops to anything above 0.920, you're sitting in good company. Also, Johnny was just under a PPG player last season. I don't understand why you're trying to backtrack rather than accepting that your argument was illogical.
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Old 03-20-2017, 10:15 AM   #791
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I stand behind my comment that the next 2-3 games would be a good test of GG and the system...
But that is not really what you said. You said that if the Flames lost 2/3 of their next three games then we would know that the streak was all good fortune and coincidence, and had nothing to do with good coaching. That is nonsense. Even if the Flames had ended up losing all three of the games you flagged it would not necessarily prove anything.

Gulutzen is a good coach and he has the team dialed in to the kind of game he wants to play.
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Old 03-20-2017, 10:25 AM   #792
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Trelivings wizardry showing its effects again.

1. Hires GG - bit of an "out of the box choice".
2. GG comes in, implements new some new coaching staff, systems, team struggles out of the gate.
3. By US thanksgiving, calls for "off with his head" begin to circulate.
4. GG tells the player to stick with it. Some promise in December, backsteps in January, doubts still swirling.
5. GG implements "beer diplomacy" on the train to Ottawa - players buy in, results start to come.
6. Flames look invincible ever since - with a winning % over 80%, going 17-3-1 in the last 21 games.
7. GG now being talked about for Jack Adams and Treliving for Grand Master Wizard!
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Old 03-20-2017, 10:33 AM   #793
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Trelivings wizardry showing its effects again.

1. Hires GG - bit of an "out of the box choice".
2. GG comes in, implements new some new coaching staff, systems, team struggles out of the gate.
3. By US thanksgiving, calls for "off with his head" begin to circulate.
4. GG tells the player to stick with it. Some promise in December, backsteps in January, doubts still swirling.
5. GG implements "beer diplomacy" on the train to Ottawa - players buy in, results start to come.
6. Flames look invincible ever since - with a winning % over 80%, going 17-3-1 in the last 21 games.
7. GG now being talked about for Jack Adams and Treliving for Grand Master Wizard!
This thread was launched on 22 October, after six games. The original title read "Fire Gulutzan & Assistants / Transgressions Thread."

There are some pretty reactionary fans and posters on this board who were calling for heads to roll a long time before US Thanksgiving.
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Old 03-20-2017, 10:50 AM   #794
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Special shout-out to Pylon for this beauty, after only six games:


"Using a name like 'Gully' kinda insinuates he's endeared by fans. As much as I loathe adding the 'y' sound to the end of a players or coaches name as a nick name as it's so lame and unoriginal, it's typically reserved for those that are somewhat liked or respected.

Eakins 2.0 is perfect.

Let's make it Ev2.0 to shorten it up. Its perfectly disparaging and disrespectful. I'm patiently waiting for some 6 year old to tell him he sucks too. Because the 6 year old would have a more informed opinion than the donkeys that hired Ev2.0"
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:26 AM   #795
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Shadowlord after the Flames go 11-2-1

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The next 2-3 games against DAL, LA and WSH will be tell us whether the GG and his system were truly responsible for the win streak or not.

If we lose 2 games or more (of the 3) or go on an extended losing streak, then it means our win streak was more a factor of luck and individual player performances. It also means that GG's coaching has minimal impact on the team's fortunes. He can't steer the ship and was just along for the ride.
Shadowlord after the Flames went 5-7-1 to start the season:

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I refuse to believe that so many of our top players have forgotten to play hockey.

This is totally on the coaches. GG doesn't know how to coach these players, or his "system" doesn't work at all or doesn't work with these players. He's stubbornly trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

Either way, he needs to make an adjustment to his methods; and if he continues to refuse, then he shouldn't be coaching in the NHL anyway. Even if he gets his system implemented, then other teams will eventually adapt and so he'll have to change the system sooner or later.
Some people just have an agenda and make up their minds long before any given result tell them they should.
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:45 AM   #796
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Please excuse me if this has been described somewhere on this thread...

But what exactly is GG's system? Is there an explanation of how it works - somewhere? I've been watching and all I see is what seems to be the outcome which is good all around hockey.

But would love to understand the technical aspects he's asked of the players.

Thanks
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:59 AM   #797
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Please excuse me if this has been described somewhere on this thread...

But what exactly is GG's system? Is there an explanation of how it works - somewhere? I've been watching and all I see is what seems to be the outcome which is good all around hockey.

But would love to understand the technical aspects he's asked of the players.

Thanks

I only know the generalities but it is about 5 man units moving the puck up ice rather than stretches and dumps. It seems to involve moving the puck through the middle of the ice more. They cycle more than throwing back to the point, though they don't ignore an open defenceman. In their own zone they don't play as passively as Hartley's collapsing defence, but they still block lanes.
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Old 03-20-2017, 12:09 PM   #798
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Please excuse me if this has been described somewhere on this thread...

But what exactly is GG's system? Is there an explanation of how it works - somewhere? I've been watching and all I see is what seems to be the outcome which is good all around hockey.

But would love to understand the technical aspects he's asked of the players.

Thanks
One big part I see is it uses the boards as a player. The transition from defense to offense is great, because wingers position themselves in a spot to get a pass either directly or from the boards to make a quick pass for a quite transition. No matter the situation, the player is always there ready as soon as puck possession is received

Great example below at 2:47. Watch Tkachuk, Backlund and Frolik's positioning. Backlund as the centre is the guy to get the puck after the D does their job,with both Frolik and Tkachuk available to get out of the zone. Although his first pass to Tkachuk via the board gets picked off, Frolik is in perfect position to intercept the pass inside, with a quick pass to Tkachuk for the transition out. Everything is kept to the outside, and anything going inside is picked off. It lead to a great 2 on 1 chance



Add to this a great cycle game (when was the last year you saw the Flames run a cycle game like the Canucks and Sedins?) and you have a great system. Boston was strong in their game, because they studied Gulutzan's system and always had a player in position to stop the short passes from happening. It's a system that can be countered much like any other one, but can be adapted.

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Old 03-20-2017, 12:16 PM   #799
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Originally Posted by Dr. Doom View Post
Please excuse me if this has been described somewhere on this thread...

But what exactly is GG's system? Is there an explanation of how it works - somewhere? I've been watching and all I see is what seems to be the outcome which is good all around hockey.

But would love to understand the technical aspects he's asked of the players.

Thanks
I'm no expert either, but some things I've noticed:

1) We're much more aggressive at defending our blue line than in the past. With Hartley, our D were asked to stay conservative and collapse to our net against e.g. a 3 on 2. With Gulutzan our D will aggressively attack the puck carrier and try to poke check the puck carrier at or just before the blue line. It forces the attackers to make a much better play to enter our zone and often creates a turnover for us to attack. The downside is we can sometimes give up a dangerous play if the poke check is late or if the attacker makes a great move.

2) When we have time our breakouts bring at least one forward back into our zone to gather speed and carry the puck. The puck starts with the LD in the middle of the ice, and a left-shooting forward (Usually the C, but Gaudreau plays this role on Monahan's line) will swing around in front of him to gather speed and be open for a quick pass to his left. The RD gives him a quick option to the right as well so the forechecker can't overplay either side. If the forward doesn't get the puck right away, he cuts back to the middle to get open. Meanwhile the wingers just both go to the corners of the blueline. This gives every player at least 2 options with the puck, and if nothing's open it's easy to dump the puck. With Hartley the C was usually up at the blueline with the wingers, so we could very quickly create an odd-man rush if the D wasn't set, but it was harder to generate speed against a prepared defense.

3) Under pressure, our breakout relies on firing the puck low around the boards and having our winger win a puck battle so he can bump it back to the center or the far D to start the breakout. Under Hartley we'd just chip it out high off the glass under pressure and try for a neutral zone turnover. In particular watch Tkachuk and Backlund; Tkachuk is excellent at controlling the puck along the boards and Backlund provides great puck support. Their ability to exit our zone is a huge reason their line has such terrific possession numbers.

4) Along the boards our team is much better at winning puck battles through good puck support. Watch when teams dump and chase against us. The first D in ties up the forechecker's stick and doesn't even attempt to play the puck, relying on the other D or backchecking C to pick up the puck and break it out.

Essentially, it's more structure offensively, and better puck support with more pressure defensively.

EDIT: The video above is a great example of why we use the boards to break out under pressure. Backlund's looking for Tkachuk but his pass is intercepted. However, even though he put it right on Toffoli's tape, we've still got 2 Flames between him and the net, with Giordano covering a man in front and Backlund's in good position against Toffoli trying to shoot. As a result, Toffoli tries a pass and Frolik intercepts, and we get an odd-man rush the other way.

EDIT2: Also, 1:50 is a great example of the way we defend the blue line. Stone and Brodie both shift to the right side of the ice to pressure the puck. Stone poke checks Toffoli right at the blueline, forcing a mediocre entry. If we'd given up the blue line easily like in years past, that third king suddenly becomes a dangerous passing option, but the puck pressure forced the kings into a 2-on-2 before the third player could join.

Last edited by Kovaz; 03-20-2017 at 12:32 PM.
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Old 03-20-2017, 12:28 PM   #800
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Originally Posted by Dr. Doom View Post
Please excuse me if this has been described somewhere on this thread...

But what exactly is GG's system? Is there an explanation of how it works - somewhere? I've been watching and all I see is what seems to be the outcome which is good all around hockey.

But would love to understand the technical aspects he's asked of the players.

Thanks
System is a wierd word because it suggests the players are not relying on their instincts, which they are, but Gulutzan's philosophies on how to approach cdrtain situations would probably be described as:

- Wingers' job is to pressure the points aggressively and force the D to toss the puck deep
- Centers support play below the goal line at the expense of leaking out for early offense.
- Defensemen and centres invite 50/50 puck battles on the walls in order to nip zone time in the bud, with the risk being that they get out of " Kris Russell pretty position"
-Defensemen play tight gaps and rely on forwards' back pressure to turn odd man rushes into dump-ins. Under Hartley the preference was to take away the passing lane and allow controlled entry. Gulutzan's way has some risk of more "pretty goals" against but less zone time.
-Wingers' job on the breakout isn't to create the first wave of speed, it's to support their D along the walls, hit the center and be the secondary wave.
-Defensemen don't skate much with the puck or play too aggressively.
- Two+ forwards in deep on the forecheck playing aggressive instead of one guy going through the motions trying to direct the puck towards a neutral zone trap.
- Defense pinch along the walls to keep pucks deep instead of pinching into the slot to score. Our D are more often closer to the boards, ready to pounce on clearing attempts. The assumption is that our forwards "will" lose the puck st some point, and will need a hand keeping it in, rather than the assumption that our forwards "may" set up a sure goal if a D is there to score it.

The big difference to me on our team is especially how centers are deployed. We now trust guys like Backlund, Bennett, Stajan, and Monahan to support their D and carry the puck. Only real issue now is that a guy like Engelland or still prefers to trust the glass than to trust Bennett or Stajan. That is a personnel issue rather than a philosophical one.
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