UPD: US Women's NT and USA Hockey reach deal

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by calgarybornnraised

Ya,Women should just stay in the kitchen and not even try,women aren't good at sports at all. We should just make our daughters take home-ec and how to give bj's.

If I had a daughter should I tell her not to even try because " it's not as good as men".

It's the equivalent of boys AAA Midget. Parents pay $1000's of dollars for their boys to play that level of hockey so being paid anything is beyond "equal pay for equal work"

That being said, if it is a full time commitment, then there should be full time pay. But if they are students being paid would nullify their NCAA Amateur status and scholarships would be forfeited.

[FireGilbert]

Originally Posted by calgarybornnraised

Ya,Women should just stay in the kitchen and not even try,women aren't good at sports at all. We should just make our daughters take home-ec and how to give bj's.

If I had a daughter should I tell her not to even try because " it's not as good as men".

This thread has done a good job filtering out who the CP misogynists are

I wish them good luck in their fight for fair pay. Women at the national team level should be given an equal amount of funding and support as the men do even if this means using profits from the men's programs to subsidize the women's.

Professional leagues are a different story all together. Obviously CWHL players will never make as much as NHLers based on the revenues of each league.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

This thread has done a good job filtering out who the CP misogynists are

I wish them good luck in their fight for fair pay. Women at the national team level should be given an equal amount of funding and support as the men do even if this means using profits from the men's programs to subsidize the women's.

Professional leagues are a different story all together. Obviously CWHL players will never make as much as NHLers based on the revenues of each league.

Except I don't think that's accurate.
There are two distinct issues.
Appropriate support and funding for women's hockey.
Appropriate compensation for national team athletes.
They have blurred the lines between the two. Any comments I have read from the players on the team are like the following

"It is a full-time job, and to not get paid is a financial burden and stress on the players, obviously. That is the conversation my husband and I are having right now. Is playing going to be more stress than we can handle? Sadly it becomes a decision between chasing your dream or giving in to the reality of the financial burden."

As far as I know, no amateur national team athletes are paid full time, and to expect that one should be sounds privileged, like I interpret the comments above to be.

Regarding the sport in general, there should absolutely be fair, equitable, equal (whatever the proper term is) support from USA Hockey. If there isn't, and I expect there may not be, that is completely wrong and should be corrected.

[Red_Baron]

So is it dollar for dollar that they want equal or is it funding per player?

They quote the 3.5 million spent on the boys program, do they want the same for the girls or do they want something equivalent using enrollment numbers to weight it?

I'm confused about what this is really about. Hockey is a very expensive sport so if you are not paying for your ice time, you are in the very priveledged category. If you are getting off-ice support of any kind and not paying out of pocket for it, you should be appreciating it.

As for getting paid to play the sport, as someone else said "you eat what you kill". If your games are generating revenue, you should get your share.

What if the olympics drop women's hockey? With the 2 horse race and the huge gap between the top 2 teams and the rest of the pack, most of the world would not miss it.

[habernac]

Cassie Campbell was on after the Flames game talking about it. The Canadian women have an advisory committee which does fundraisers, gets sponsorships, etc to help with the funding of the women's program. This was after a number of the Canadian players went after Hockey Canada after 1998 for more funding

I've also found from this article:

http://infotel.ca/newsitem/canadian-...out-us/it40721

Canada's system is different in that the women on the national team receive carding money of $1,500 per month from Sport Canada year-round.

When the players centralized in Calgary to begin training full time for the 2014 Winter Olympics, Hockey Canada topped that up by about $2,500 per month to cover moving and living expenses.

Own The Podium directs just over a million dollars of taxpayer money annually into the Hockey Canada's female program that includes the developmental and under-18 teams.

[Northendzone]

so if I understand the issue - the us womens team is threating to boycott the upcoming championships (whcich are not the Olympics); howeer, hockey usa's response indicates that they provide up to $85k for the Olympics


there seems to be a missing piece here.

to me if these ladies are equivalent to carded athlete's like track and field athelte's then they should be provided for on an equal basis

these womens represent to top female players in their respective countries - just because they can't beat a midget aaa boys team should not dimish that.

nobody asks the female high jumpers to jump higher than the men

[Resolute 14]

USA Hockey is effectively attempting a Chewbacca Defence.

[habernac]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...line/99247726/

Players on the women’s national hockey team have until 5 p.m. ET Thursday to declare whether they will follow through with their boycott of the International Ice Hockey Federation (IIHF) World Championship, a USA Hockey official confirmed to USA TODAY Sports

[troutman]

Cassie said it was not about the $. It is about the $.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by troutman

Cassie said it was not about the $. It is about the $.

Quote from USA alternate captain:

“If you’re at the pinnacle of your sport, you should be able to make a living wage doing so,” Lamoureux-Morando said. “We should be able to make a living wage being the top female hockey players in the country and not have to hold second and third jobs.”

The women have proposed a dollar amount to USA Hockey, but they’re not disclosing it. It isn’t $2-million salaries, though. “I wish it had that many zeroes on it,” Lamoureux-Morando said, with a chuckle.

It's always about the $

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

USA Hockey is effectively attempting a Chewbacca Defence.

Rrrrrrrrrrrr?


Just for clarification, US Women NT is hoping for something similar to what Canadian Women NT got in 1998? Or are they asking for more?

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by KingMoo

I would love to see a USA hosted event where the american team doesnt show up

If these players boycott US hockey would just select another team. Unless all girls make a stand and playing would be equivalent to crossing a picket line.

[Red_Baron]

Here's what is not clear:
Do they want to get paid because they have proven that they have a high demand product that is making someone else money and they want their share?
Or do they feel a right to be paid because they are at the pinnacle of something, regardless of if there is a viable market for it or not?

[polak]

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

This thread has done a good job filtering out who the CP misogynists are

Or you know, some people just don't feel sympathy for athletes complaining about not making enough money for playing child games for a living. Regardless of gender.

These are the issues I have with their argument, none of which has to do with their gender

It sounds like they're completely ignoring the number of registered players in their 3.5 million for development programs argument. There are hundreds of thousands of more boys playing hockey than girls. How can they expect the same amount of money being spent developing girls? Let them provide per player numbers.

They complain about it being a full time job but they didn't really outline how it's a full time job. I don't consider having practice and working out a full time job. It's probably only a full time job in the few months leading up to the Olympics and it sounds like they're being paid during that time.

No one has provided any actual numbers regarding their wages compared to the Mens team but considering the Mens team are all NHL'ers, I doubt they get any extra compensation and will continue assuming that until someone shows some numbers saying otherwise.

They complained about not getting to play in NHL venues, yet USA Hockey has told them sell out the small venues and they seemingly can't do that.

And finally, it's hard to sympathize with the athletes for one of the least competitive, least financially stable sports complaining about the lack of wages. They are not being forced to play this game for a living. Look at all of us who love sports but can't make a living off of it. Life's not fair and it'll always be tough for women to make a living in sport. If they can prove with numbers that there is an unequal amount of money being spent on the mens program vs the womens program on a per player basis then they totally have an argument and that is something that needs to be addressed. They haven't provided any actual numbers to convince me and evidently a judge (seeing how they claim to have legal ground that they're not acting on) that this is the case.

The fact that USA Hockey is willing to keep negotiating while the women are taking their sticks and going home doesn't look great either considering how little leverage they have. No one is going to miss Womens Hockey beside us Canadians. If they start skipping tournaments they can pretty much kiss the sports spot in the Olympics good bye.

[Redrum]

They really have USA Hockey by the balls. Just as bad as the NHL lockout. I'm sure they will be greatly missed.

[CaptainCrunch]

At a certain point, the team is just going to tell those girls to piss off, and they'll build the team with other players.

Lets face facts, outside of the Olympics, there's not a die hard following for woman's hockey, especially in the States, and I don't know if the game is growing or not becuause frankly right now its Team USA and Team Canada and then a bunch of teams wearing double runner skates and wearing water wings in case they fall.

Is the Olympic dream about making money? Sure, but you also have to be marketable while making that money. I don't think that this sport is all that marketable. Its a sport in the Olympics where people go because (sexism alert) all the tickets to the Men's hockey are gone.

If the team was offering them that $21,000 plus housing, transportation, equipment etc, then that's probably pretty generous considering the marketability of the sport, I don't think that people are filling up 5000 seat arenas to watch them play.

Like I said, the US will eventually get tired of this, and either kill the team entirely and go back to recruiting college players to come out at the last possible minute and still win medals. Or they'll throw their arms up in the air and basically state that any player that boycotts the WC will lose their Olympic dream.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

At a certain point, the team is just going to tell those girls to piss off, and they'll build the team with other players.

Lets face facts, outside of the Olympics, there's not a die hard following for woman's hockey, especially in the States, and I don't know if the game is growing or not becuause frankly right now its Team USA and Team Canada and then a bunch of teams wearing double runner skates and wearing water wings in case they fall.

Is the Olympic dream about making money? Sure, but you also have to be marketable while making that money. I don't think that this sport is all that marketable. Its a sport in the Olympics where people go because (sexism alert) all the tickets to the Men's hockey are gone.

If the team was offering them that $21,000 plus housing, transportation, equipment etc, then that's probably pretty generous considering the marketability of the sport, I don't think that people are filling up 5000 seat arenas to watch them play.

Like I said, the US will eventually get tired of this, and either kill the team entirely and go back to recruiting college players to come out at the last possible minute and still win medals. Or they'll throw their arms up in the air and basically state that any player that boycotts the WC will lose their Olympic dream.

The team is already full of college players. If I was a betting man, the players putting up the fuss would be the older ones that no longer play College and think they are owed a career out of hockey for some reason.

[saillias]

Gabriella Levine‏ @gab_rose1Mar 15

Per @espn USA Hockey spends approx $3.5 mil building up programs for boys. The amount they spend for comparable programs for girls? Zero.

http://www.foxsports.com/nhl/story/h...riously-031617

Interview with Hilary Knight about the boycott.

There’s a lot of different issues that kind of come together. I got off the phone with someone earlier today and they were a local Plymouth (MI) news source and they were like “oh my gosh, we didn’t really know much about the World Championships and here they are in our back yard” and I was like “yeah, that’s because of visibility and what our organization thinks of the women’s side.”
So hopefully this changes that.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

The team is already full of college players. If I was a betting man, the players putting up the fuss would be the older ones that no longer play College and think they are owed a career out of hockey for some reason.

No I get that, but what I'm saying is that they could probably dump this whole team, and go and recruit another team about 3 months before the Worlds, have a couple of practices, some beer and wings and win a medal at the Worlds or the Olympics.

I think we over romanticize about things like this because we're Canadians and the game is in our blood.

At the end of the day, what does the Olympic committee or USA Hockey really owe this team. Training, facilities, travel, equipment and coaching, they're not a pro organization, Its supposed to be about the opportunity and sacrifice.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

The team is already full of college players. If I was a betting man, the players putting up the fuss would be the older ones that no longer play College and think they are owed a career out of hockey for some reason.

College players on NCAA scholarships cannot be paid to play, or they lose their amateur status and would forfeit their scholarship.