[GDT] SUPER BOWL LI: Atlanta Falcons vs. New England Patriots

[browna]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Ok, maybe I'm just a youth coach, but I've done it for about 10 years now, I've coached offense and defense, and been a coordinator on both sides of the ball, and I can absolutely say with certainty that some coaches outsmart themselves.

Coaches are fallible like players, and sometimes coaches go against conventional wisdom. Why not run the ball three times? Because maybe your thinking that New England is going to expect that and they're going to stack as many guys in the box as possible. Do I trust my running back to take a beating? Do I trust him to be able to get through 11 guys and not get the ball stripped. If they're expecting that, then why not throw it, I might catch them in a bad defense because they're playing with conventional wisdom.

When Pete Carroll caused for a pass in the superbowl, maybe its because in his mind he was absolutely sure that the defense he was facing would be playing run strong, so maybe I'll be unconventional.

At certain times you have to make unconventional calls, or gamble.

In this case, I'm sure in his mind he thought he would catch them in a run stop defense and be able to get a surer field goal position, or better yet, maybe we score a touchdown, and kill the comeback attempt and put it away.

If a coach isn't willing to gamble, be unpredictable at times, or go for broke then he might as well stick with coaching offensive linemen.

The problem is that if you look at his body of work this year, his instincts have been bang on right for most of the season, why would he go against them now?

Nah, after that Julio catch and being in FG range, they were just going to kill the clock down from four to about two minutes with 3 run plays or short plays, and kick the 35 yard field goal to be ahead by 10. But then the sack, then the hold which stopped the clock, and the forced to try and get some yards back with a throw that also went incomplete.

Game plan was sound to take the clock down two more minutes and be ahead by 2 scores, but the sack was inexcusible and set the whole game plan off. The next play was a decent play to get back in comfortable range, but called back on the hold.

While I digress, for Pete Carroll, the call to pass was still ok, not because they were over thinking; they wasted two timeouts in the drive and only had one left. Trying a play that would stop the clock was fine....but it was the wrong area to throw it in with too much traffic/too much that could go wrong, as it should've been a fade to the back of the endzone.

Don't get me wrong, that will haunt Atlanta and Quinn and Ryan for a long time. I don't think that team gets back to this point right away, just like CAR didn't. A lot of things went right for them this year to add to their good play, but in the NFL there's a real fine line between having a good season and having a great one. For example, pardon the Seattle reference again, but if Seattle doesn't lose at home to ARI in Week 16 (or, the Rams week one - recall Seattle beat NE and ATL this year), then Atlanta is #4 seed, and has to play an extra game (Detroit) in the playoffs. Assuming they win, they then travel to Seattle for the divisional game vs the other way around, and the weather elements etc come into play.

Injury in one of those extra games, a long round trip flight etc etc may have taken a toll do that even if they beat Seattle, and maybe GB takes advantage of that next week and gets in there. Point is a lot of things can factor into success especially in the playoffs, at ATL is a a tougher division now especially with TB coming on, CAR probably better, and Brees still doing well.

[Keselke]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Patriots being exposed as the mediocre team they are.

Bruh

[habernac]

LOL, I may still be drunk, heading to the bus now. Still can't believe it.

[GirlySports]

Sure coaches sometimes outsmart themselves but in this case the didnt even not need to gain yards. They could have even knelled 3 times.

[habernac]

Roger that.



http://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/122...medium=twitter

[Erick Estrada]

I haven't seen a choke job like that since well November when the Stamps performed their annual playoff choke. Not taking away anything from the Patriots but to come back from being down 28-3 with only 1/3 of the game remaining a lot of things have to go your way and the other team will have to melt down. When the Pats failed that desperation onside kick all the Falcons had to do was get one first down and kick the FG. Instead Ryan takes a big sack (seriously he's going to look at the tape after this one and wonder why he kept holding on to the ball so long rather than throwing it away when no receivers were open) and they lose yardage on the series. Then of course the series that will haunt the organization forever where all they had to do was run the ball three times while taking a few minutes off the clock and kick the FG for the Super Bowl victory. Instead silliness ensues and who knows when the Falcons will ever even get back to the Super Bowl let alone win one. For all the hype Shanahan has received over the season he really blew it trying to pass the ball at that stage of the game. Inexcusable mistake IMO.

[Scornfire]

Best game I've ever watched, but the NFL seriously needs to change their OT rules, the other team should have a chance to answer even on a TD

[Wiggum_PI]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I haven't seen a choke job like that since well November when the Stamps performed their annual playoff choke. Not taking away anything from the Patriots but to come back from being down 28-3 with only 1/3 of the game remaining a lot of things have to go your way and the other team will have to melt down. When the Pats failed that desperation onside kick all the Falcons had to do was get one first down and kick the FG. Instead Ryan takes a big sack (seriously he's going to look at the tape after this one and wonder why he kept holding on to the ball so long rather than throwing it away when no receivers were open) and they lose yardage on the series. Then of course the series that will haunt the organization forever where all they had to do was run the ball three times while taking a few minutes off the clock and kick the FG for the Super Bowl victory. Instead silliness ensues and who knows when the Falcons will ever even get back to the Super Bowl let alone win one. For all the hype Shanahan has received over the season he really blew it trying to pass the ball at that stage of the game. Inexcusable mistake IMO.

Calling a passing play on 3rd and 1 when you're in field goal range and can go up by 2 scores, is just insanity. Totally reminds me of Pete Carroll's infamous goal line throw 2 years ago, or Dickenson's Grey Cup stupidity of not giving the ball to Messam on the 1 yard line.

Full credit to the Pats for the win, but this game was more about Atlanta blowing it then NE playing great.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by EricCartman

IMO, he's the greatest ever for winning. He will never have the gaudy regular season stats of a Manning or Brees, but Tom Brady has championships. The sacrifice he makes for his team is enough to be the greatest. He never complains to the media that they got rid of Welker or Moss, he just continues to work on his craft tirelessly. TBs offence is one where they will pass 60 times to win a game and sometimes run 12 straight times because he makes the sacrifice and knows what's best for winning. A winning QB approaching 40 who is getting better and he's also the ultimate teammate, that's the greatest of all time right there.

As far as the system goes, when Cassel took over the Pats weren't even a playoff team. In Belichicks first year as coach Bledsoe led them to a losing record. If Belichick could replace him don't you think he'd go the Patriot way and get another younger QB in there? Pats love to get rid of aging players. Great system, greatest player ever.

I don't question Brady's ability to win the big game or commitment to the team at all. If i'm picking one guy to win me that game, it's probably going to be him. It's the whole GOAT thing I have trouble getting to. I just question (and always have) if we'd think about him the way we do if he was on another team. I look at it this way, if Rogers was on the Patriots instead of Brady would they still have 5 championships, in my mind they probably would. If Brady was on the Packers, would we have have the success he has? I don't think so. I'm fully aware it can be argued either way, that's just the way I feel.

He's my Derek Jeter of the NFL. I know he's great player and a Hall of Famer, but I question if he'd have the lure he does if he played on another team. Not Jeter's fault he played for the Yankees, but I don't think he's the type of player that could take a team from worst to first.

[TheAlpineOracle]

http://www.tsn.ca/brady-suspects-sup...tolen-1.665299

That's pretty sketchy.

[2macinnis2]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

I don't question Brady's ability to win the big game or commitment to the team at all. If i'm picking one guy to win me that game, it's probably going to be him. It's the whole GOAT thing I have trouble getting to. I just question (and always have) if we'd think about him the way we do if he was on another team. I look at it this way, if Rogers was on the Patriots instead of Brady would they still have 5 championships, in my mind they probably would. If Brady was on the Packers, would we have have the success he has? I don't think so. I'm fully aware it can be argued either way, that's just the way I feel.

He's my Derek Jeter of the NFL. I know he's great player and a Hall of Famer, but I question if he'd have the lure he does if he played on another team. Not Jeter's fault he played for the Yankees, but I don't think he's the type of player that could take a team from worst to first.

Yeah I agree with this. Brady is one of the best, and I guess you can argue he is ideal QB for Belichick system, but truthfully Garapallo looked an awful lot like him early in the season. Hard to imagine they wouldn't have been 4-0 had JG not gotten hurt. Again, if healthy for full season, I got the sense JG could've led them to a 12-4 type season. And yeah, horrible Matt cassell got them to 11-5 after not playing a down of football in over 4 years.

The game last night was won by their defense. Falcons were totally shut down when it counted, and it gave their offense drive after drive and great confidence. To stop the Falcons twice in their own end without giving up a single point is remarkable.

On the flip, Peyton Manning gets hurt and the Colts go 1-15. Peyton went to the SB with 4 different coaches. That's individually more impressive to me than 7 with BB, or at least very very close.

What's not close is that BB is the Michael Jordan of coaches. I would never argue against that.

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by Scornfire

Best game I've ever watched, but the NFL seriously needs to change their OT rules, the other team should have a chance to answer even on a TD

The OT rules are fine. I don't like giving the artificial possession just so that both teams have at least one. A touchdown still has to be scored by the first team that has possession.

In other sports like soccer, the sudden death rule works the same. If the first team with the ball scores, it's over. You don't go back and give the other team an artificial possession to make it even.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by darklord700

The OT rules are fine. I don't like giving the artificial possession just so that both teams have at least one. A touchdown still has to be scored by the first team that has possession.

In other sports like soccer, the sudden death rule works the same. If the first team with the ball scores, it's over. You don't go back and give the other team an artificial possession to make it even.

Yeah, all Atlanta had to do is stop them from marching the length of the field and getting a TD on their first possession and they would have had a chance. The only thing I would change about the OT rules in the post-season is that I don't think a coin flip should determine the right to first possession. Highest seed should get it in a neutral site game.

[Scornfire]

Originally Posted by darklord700

The OT rules are fine. I don't like giving the artificial possession just so that both teams have at least one. A touchdown still has to be scored by the first team that has possession.

In other sports like soccer, the sudden death rule works the same. If the first team with the ball scores, it's over. You don't go back and give the other team an artificial possession to make it even.

Soccer and Hockey are more fluidic and dynamic in terms of transitioning from offense to defense, I'm okay with the sudden death aspects there. A better comparable for Football is Baseball, which does in fact give both teams a chance to score in Extra Innings. Just my opinion though, always felt that it's 10x easier to score in OT than to defend given the pressure of the situation, and most of the time it feels like the coin flip determines the winner

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by Scornfire

Soccer and Hockey are more fluidic and dynamic in terms of transitioning from offense to defense, I'm okay with the sudden death aspects there. A better comparable for Football is Baseball, which does in fact give both teams a chance to score in Extra Innings. Just my opinion though, always felt that it's 10x easier to score in OT than to defend given the pressure of the situation, and most of the time it feels like the coin flip determines the winner

I would argue that in baseball you can't steal a possession while in the NFL you can, that's the major difference. I never like the CFL OT rules that both teams get one possession on the 35 or 40 yard line. It completely changes the game and the CFL OT rules make OT game school yard like.

[SuperMatt18]

It's crazy how close the Patriots Super Bowls have all been - feels like they could easily be 7-0 or 0-7.

XXXVI: 20-17 Win - 48 Yard Field Goal as Time Expired, and out-gained 427-267 in yards.

XXXVIII: 32-29 Win - Panthers Kicker puts the ball out of bounds so the Patriots start at the 40 Yard Line - 41 Yard Field Goal with 4 Seconds left

XXXIX: 24-21 Win - Probably the most clear win, but still 24-21 and was tied going into the 4th quarter.

XLII: 17-14 Loss - David Tyree, enough said.

XLVI: 21-17 Loss - Mario Manningham catch, Patriots let them score the touchdown to go ahead.

XLIX: 28-24 Win - Came back from 24-14 in 4th Quarter, Seahawks make a bone head call to end the game.

LI: 34 -28 OT Win - Came back from 28-3, game is over if Falcons run the ball and kick the field goal in the 4th quarter.

7 Super Bowls, 5-2 record, and all games decided by one score. They weren't always the prettiest games but for the most part this Patriots Dynasty always gave us good endings in the Super Bowl.

[zukes]

Originally Posted by Weitz

He also plays for a cheating organization. Always be an asterisk for me.

www.yourteamcheats.com

I am so sick of this narrative.

Deion Sanders last night pulled the plug on that too on the NFL Network, saying that the Colts were notorious for stealing defensive playbooks and signals and the whole league knew it for years, but the media never picked up on it.

Based on that website linked above, the Patriots are middle of the pack when it comes to cheating. Top 3 are: Denver, New York Jets and Pittsburgh.

[zukes]

Originally Posted by Nsd1

31 straight points coming up for the Patriots

Wow! Good call man!

[troutman]

It's loser talk to post about cheating, complain about refs, attaching asterisks, to say "I'm not taking anything away". That's exactly what you are doing. Admit the obvious without qualifications. The best team won again.

[Erick Estrada]

Really nice breakdown here of all the things that had to happen and how a team pulled off a win after having a 0.2% probability;

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/page...-super-bowl-li