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Old 04-12-2006, 04:53 PM   #321
Bent Wookie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Five-hole
I'm wading in in the middle of the debate here, but whatever.

As a young musician in this city, the Red Mile was a glimmer of hope in a stuffy, white-collar, suburban commuter town. Unsurprisingly, the faint chance at the city embracing some young culture was met with raised hackles in city hall and a police crackdown.

According to one Alderwoman, the thought of people coming from all over to "get totally drunk" is deplorable. I suppose things like Carnaval and Mardi Gras are black marks on their respective cities, despite the worldwide recognition and the tourism they bring. Personally, I think it's a good thing if people come from different places in Western Canada, stay in a hotel, eat at restaurants, and most likely do some shopping in the city. Local business benefits! That's a GOOD thing.

Calgary's known for oil and money. Yawn. And that one time that the city went VERY peacably crazy and had an awesome party for a month. I think it's a compliment that so little was damaged and so few were hurt in a month's long midnight revelry of DRUNKEN SPORTS FANS. Had you attempted to promote the really good parts of the Red Mile -- team spirit, city pride, camaraderie, and peaceful public gatherings -- you could have had that carry on. Instead, you focused on all the negative aspects and are attempting to lock down on them. Smart thinking.

It's poor planning, shortsightedness, small-town conservatism, and the desire to remain a completely dead city after 6:00PM. This city's mentality stinks.
Well said Five Hole... however would you agree that the the plan put forth is more a civil liability issue?
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Old 04-12-2006, 04:54 PM   #322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bent Wookie
There is no definition in the GLA or GLR for intoxication... however clcik the link and go down to section 115 to read all about public intoxication:

http://www.canlii.org/ab/laws/sta/g-...310/whole.html
Wow, that's a pretty lousy piece of legislation. There's no protection or repercussions for the person being charged.

EDIT: Not only that but the cop doesn't even have to prove you're intoxicated.

EDIT #2: Also flies directly in the face of this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by UN Declaration of Human Rights
Article 8.

  • Everyone has the right to an effective remedy by the competent national tribunals for acts violating the fundamental rights granted him by the constitution or by law.


    Article 9.
    • No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.



      • And

        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms
        Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure

Last edited by rubecube; 04-12-2006 at 05:06 PM.
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Old 04-12-2006, 04:59 PM   #323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bent Wookie
Well said Five Hole... however would you agree that the the plan put forth is more a civil liability issue?
Let me read some more of this thread first before I respond.
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Old 04-12-2006, 05:25 PM   #324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Five-hole
I'm wading in in the middle of the debate here, but whatever.

As a young musician in this city, the Red Mile was a glimmer of hope in a stuffy, white-collar, suburban commuter town. Unsurprisingly, the faint chance at the city embracing some young culture was met with raised hackles in city hall and a police crackdown.

According to one Alderwoman, the thought of people coming from all over to "get totally drunk" is deplorable. I suppose things like Carnaval and Mardi Gras are black marks on their respective cities, despite the worldwide recognition and the tourism they bring. Personally, I think it's a good thing if people come from different places in Western Canada, stay in a hotel, eat at restaurants, and most likely do some shopping in the city. Local business benefits! That's a GOOD thing.

Calgary's known for oil and money. Yawn. And that one time that the city went VERY peacably crazy and had an awesome party for a month. I think it's a compliment that so little was damaged and so few were hurt in a month's long midnight revelry of DRUNKEN SPORTS FANS. Had you attempted to promote the really good parts of the Red Mile -- team spirit, city pride, camaraderie, and peaceful public gatherings -- you could have had that carry on. Instead, you focused on all the negative aspects and are attempting to lock down on them. Smart thinking.

It's poor planning, shortsightedness, small-town conservatism, and the desire to remain a completely dead city after 6:00PM. This city's mentality stinks.
Well said.
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Old 04-12-2006, 08:04 PM   #325
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Originally Posted by Bent Wookie
the police MUST publicly announce a crackdown on illegal activities during such an event.
Like I said before, I'd rather see them concentrating on fighting the real crime, but by the looks of it they only have enough guts to give out tickets to hockey fans because they've had a few beers. That is pathetic.
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Old 04-12-2006, 08:18 PM   #326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Five-hole
I'm wading in in the middle of the debate here, but whatever.

As a young musician in this city, the Red Mile was a glimmer of hope in a stuffy, white-collar, suburban commuter town. Unsurprisingly, the faint chance at the city embracing some young culture was met with raised hackles in city hall and a police crackdown.

According to one Alderwoman, the thought of people coming from all over to "get totally drunk" is deplorable. I suppose things like Carnaval and Mardi Gras are black marks on their respective cities, despite the worldwide recognition and the tourism they bring. Personally, I think it's a good thing if people come from different places in Western Canada, stay in a hotel, eat at restaurants, and most likely do some shopping in the city. Local business benefits! That's a GOOD thing.

Calgary's known for oil and money. Yawn. And that one time that the city went VERY peacably crazy and had an awesome party for a month. I think it's a compliment that so little was damaged and so few were hurt in a month's long midnight revelry of DRUNKEN SPORTS FANS. Had you attempted to promote the really good parts of the Red Mile -- team spirit, city pride, camaraderie, and peaceful public gatherings -- you could have had that carry on. Instead, you focused on all the negative aspects and are attempting to lock down on them. Smart thinking.

It's poor planning, shortsightedness, small-town conservatism, and the desire to remain a completely dead city after 6:00PM. This city's mentality stinks.
I don't think I could have worded it any better myself. I'm very disappointed with this city and the view it has chosen to take in regards to its citizens.

This city should be proud of the way people handled themselves two years ago. Sure we were roudy and excited. But God Damnit, we went to the Stanly Cup Finals. I was on the Red Mile numverous times. I was there both when we eliminated Detroit and San Jose. People were celebrating, having fun, enjoying the victories. Did it get a little out of hand at time? Perhaps.

But its not like fans rioted. We didn't start trees on fire of flip over cars or break windows of shops along the street. So what's the big ****ing deal???

The more this city tries to restrain its citizens from celebrating, the more people will resist the new rules. THEN, we will have a problem.
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Old 04-12-2006, 08:22 PM   #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Five-hole
I'm wading in in the middle of the debate here, but whatever.

As a young musician in this city, the Red Mile was a glimmer of hope in a stuffy, white-collar, suburban commuter town. Unsurprisingly, the faint chance at the city embracing some young culture was met with raised hackles in city hall and a police crackdown.

According to one Alderwoman, the thought of people coming from all over to "get totally drunk" is deplorable. I suppose things like Carnaval and Mardi Gras are black marks on their respective cities, despite the worldwide recognition and the tourism they bring. Personally, I think it's a good thing if people come from different places in Western Canada, stay in a hotel, eat at restaurants, and most likely do some shopping in the city. Local business benefits! That's a GOOD thing.

Calgary's known for oil and money. Yawn. And that one time that the city went VERY peacably crazy and had an awesome party for a month. I think it's a compliment that so little was damaged and so few were hurt in a month's long midnight revelry of DRUNKEN SPORTS FANS. Had you attempted to promote the really good parts of the Red Mile -- team spirit, city pride, camaraderie, and peaceful public gatherings -- you could have had that carry on. Instead, you focused on all the negative aspects and are attempting to lock down on them. Smart thinking.

It's poor planning, shortsightedness, small-town conservatism, and the desire to remain a completely dead city after 6:00PM. This city's mentality stinks.
Well said. I doubt that old-school Madeline King has bothered to look at the positive effects to Calgary's economy and reputation for peaceful celebrations.

Does anyone know if there are any public polls on what the people of Calgary actually want, not what some old-school aldermen want?
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Old 04-12-2006, 08:31 PM   #328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepper24
Well said. I doubt that old-school Madeline King has bothered to look at the positive effects to Calgary's economy and reputation for peaceful celebrations.

Does anyone know if there are any public polls on what the people of Calgary actually want, not what some old-school aldermen want?
Here ya go:

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/...ca3d589&k=5506

Sounds like the surrounding neighborhoods are perfectly ok with the Red Mile. Speaking of which, I just heard that not only do the cops want us to stay away from 17th, but we're also not allowed to honk our car horns. Now if that isn't the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, I don't know what is. The CPS are idiots if they think they can actually control something like that. So if the Flames win a few playoff games, we're all just supposed to stay quiet and go home?? Unbelievable.
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Old 04-12-2006, 08:50 PM   #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by direwolf
Here ya go:

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/...ca3d589&k=5506

Sounds like the surrounding neighborhoods are perfectly ok with the Red Mile. Speaking of which, I just heard that not only do the cops want us to stay away from 17th, but we're also not allowed to honk our car horns. Now if that isn't the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, I don't know what is. The CPS are idiots if they think they can actually control something like that. So if the Flames win a few playoff games, we're all just supposed to stay quiet and go home?? Unbelievable.
Thanks for the link. Looks like Madeline King wants both the homeless and Flames fans removed from public viewing.
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Old 04-12-2006, 08:58 PM   #330
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If there are 20 cars honking their horns down the street. How are they going to know which car honked it? lol
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Old 04-13-2006, 01:22 PM   #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubecube
Wow, that's a pretty lousy piece of legislation. There's no protection or repercussions for the person being charged.

EDIT: Not only that but the cop doesn't even have to prove you're intoxicated.

EDIT #2: Also flies directly in the face of this:



      • And

Ummm not sure where to start with this... ofcourse there needs to be some indictia of impairment for arrest- thus the wording reasonable and probable grouds. Those grounds are based on objective factors (observations) and certain subjective ones as well.
The arrest is not arbitrary at all- its because you are intoxicated and in a public place and do not have to ability to either care for yourself or you are a danger to yourself or someone else. Let's be clear the section sets out parameters for arrest and detention in addition to receiving a simple summons (one or the other).
I'm not really sure how article 8 fits into this. Your rights are not being violated, you have commitment an offense.

As far as section 8 of the CCRF goes, again, search and seizure has nothing to do with this. That section is desgined to protect against unreasonable searches and seizures by agents of the state- not an arrest.
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Old 04-13-2006, 02:46 PM   #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bent Wookie
Ummm not sure where to start with this... ofcourse there needs to be some indictia of impairment for arrest- thus the wording reasonable and probable grouds. Those grounds are based on objective factors (observations) and certain subjective ones as well.
The arrest is not arbitrary at all- its because you are intoxicated and in a public place and do not have to ability to either care for yourself or you are a danger to yourself or someone else. Let's be clear the section sets out parameters for arrest and detention in addition to receiving a simple summons (one or the other).
I'm not really sure how article 8 fits into this. Your rights are not being violated, you have commitment an offense.

As far as section 8 of the CCRF goes, again, search and seizure has nothing to do with this. That section is desgined to protect against unreasonable searches and seizures by agents of the state- not an arrest.
But it's still reserved to the officer's judgement and there's no way you can say "No I'm not intoxicated" without it being considered resisting arrest.

Umm...aren't the police considered agents of the state? But you're right, I'll edit that out of my post later since it refers to personal belongings more than arrest.
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Old 04-13-2006, 05:29 PM   #333
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This so typical of Calgary. I wish I was surprised but I'm not. Unfortunatley we have a huge number of conservative prudes that live here. Many of them have far too much money which gets them power. The crazy number of police will ruin the fun we had the last time.
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Old 04-14-2006, 03:48 AM   #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Five-hole
I'm wading in in the middle of the debate here, but whatever.

As a young musician in this city, the Red Mile was a glimmer of hope in a stuffy, white-collar, suburban commuter town. Unsurprisingly, the faint chance at the city embracing some young culture was met with raised hackles in city hall and a police crackdown.

According to one Alderwoman, the thought of people coming from all over to "get totally drunk" is deplorable. I suppose things like Carnaval and Mardi Gras are black marks on their respective cities, despite the worldwide recognition and the tourism they bring. Personally, I think it's a good thing if people come from different places in Western Canada, stay in a hotel, eat at restaurants, and most likely do some shopping in the city. Local business benefits! That's a GOOD thing.

Calgary's known for oil and money. Yawn. And that one time that the city went VERY peacably crazy and had an awesome party for a month. I think it's a compliment that so little was damaged and so few were hurt in a month's long midnight revelry of DRUNKEN SPORTS FANS. Had you attempted to promote the really good parts of the Red Mile -- team spirit, city pride, camaraderie, and peaceful public gatherings -- you could have had that carry on. Instead, you focused on all the negative aspects and are attempting to lock down on them. Smart thinking.

It's poor planning, shortsightedness, small-town conservatism, and the desire to remain a completely dead city after 6:00PM. This city's mentality stinks.
Very well put, I applaud you. Until the mindset changes amongst the people and the civic morons(alderman King), this city will forever be a dull, lack of culture, conservative place to live. With literally no or a boring nightlife for the younger generation(and the new bylaw which was passed bout a month ago, will only ensure Calgary's status as a dead city at night).

As I have stated in many other similar threads, not much we can do at this point. The only way to solve this is to ensure a change, is to do our civic duty and vote. Stop voting for these individuals whom are better suited to be an alderman in a town of 1000 people in 1940. Get someone in there whom appreciates and at least try to make this city vibrant.

With respect to the RED MILE. As previous posters stated, no one is stopping you from being on 17th. No one has the right to remove or ask you questions if you are minding your own business and not in a drunken state. I went out there tonight just to see what would happen and know enough of my legal rights, so the Gestapo, whoops I mean the CPS couldnt do a damn thing, since I was not drunk, nor causing any disruptions. It also helped that I had a copy of my charter of rights as well.
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Old 04-14-2006, 03:54 AM   #335
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Although in my opinion, I could care less about the Red Mile. I would rather have the focus and mentality of the city to change in general. Thus maybe we could finally have a city which has a nightlife and things to do all year around, every weekend, etc.

A city of a million people should not just have a grand total of two events a year when there is some semblance of fun at night. (Playoffs and Stampede). We need excitement in the core not just during those times, but rather all the time.
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Old 04-14-2006, 03:58 AM   #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubecube
But it's still reserved to the officer's judgement and there's no way you can say "No I'm not intoxicated" without it being considered resisting arrest.

Umm...aren't the police considered agents of the state? But you're right, I'll edit that out of my post later since it refers to personal belongings more than arrest.
no but section 7 protects your right to liberty and security of the person.


Anyway, to be honest, the red mile was cool until about San Jose, then it got lame anyway, but it was a neat thing to have in the city. I have no problem with cars honking etc... but people have to realize it's easier to ptu the foot down now and easy up later.

If they let people get away with too much at the outset it's hard to crackdown later.
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Old 04-14-2006, 06:54 AM   #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubecube
But it's still reserved to the officer's judgement and there's no way you can say "No I'm not intoxicated" without it being considered resisting arrest.

Umm...aren't the police considered agents of the state? But you're right, I'll edit that out of my post later since it refers to personal belongings more than arrest.
Its a judgement based a reasonable and probable grounds- ie. indictia of impairment. All offences, including criminal code offences are based on this. Thats how our justice system works.

Last edited by Bent Wookie; 04-14-2006 at 06:56 AM.
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Old 04-14-2006, 07:00 AM   #338
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Sooooooooo Retarded!!!
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Old 04-14-2006, 09:57 AM   #339
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A lot of you are missing the point.

The laws being enforced on the Red mile are not being enforced in an effort to encroach on your rights. The laws and rules are being enforced to prevent a 20,000 person time bomb from exploding.

Sure, you may be down there to peacefully celebrate the Flames' success... most people wouldn't go to 17th with the intent to start a riot. But by having 20,000 drunk people crammed so close together, the chance of a riot/violence is greatly increased.

The city is trying to reduce this risk and protect its citizens, because as we've seen hundreds of times in other cities - celebrations of sporting victories often lead to violence. Face the facts, the relatively peaceful celebrations of '04 were an anomaly - you wouldn't normally expect things to go as smoothly as they did. The city and merchants of 17th got lucky in '04 that nothing got out of hand.

The cops are giving out tickets now for being loud/public drunkeness/etc to set the stage for when a huge number of people try to converge on the Red Mile. By being extremely tough now, it sends a message that there will be zero tolerance for law-breaking activity come next week.

In fact, those of you posting about the tickets you got are playing right into the hands of the people trying to stop the Red Mile celebrations. You are spreading the word that there actually is zero tolerance on the Red Mile. You are getting their message out by posting your stories here. They want media coverage of the tickets they are handing out. If more people realize the severity of the fines and punishments, they will be less likely to engage in similar behaviour. Well done.

Last edited by Jonrox; 04-14-2006 at 10:02 AM.
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Old 04-14-2006, 10:45 AM   #340
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If the "authorities" are so worried about public drunkenness then pot should be legalized!
Can see it now...the Red Eyed Mile!
Of course that would raise the potential problem of masses of munchified Flames revellers descending on convenience stores, tossing empty potato chip bags everywhere etc. Oh, the horror...
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