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Old 04-27-2012, 05:02 PM   #21
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yeah mine too.
Always nice to hear stories like that.
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Old 04-27-2012, 05:02 PM   #22
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And to think, all of that money wasted on professionals who deal with mental illness.
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Old 04-27-2012, 05:47 PM   #23
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Oh boy. This reminds me a loooot of my childhood.
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Old 04-27-2012, 09:09 PM   #24
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So the Boy just went out to play after getting home from school. When he came home I asked how his day was. He said it was good and asked if I could volunteer again. I asked who he played with this afternoon, he listed of 3-4 kids and one of those was the "troubled boy" in his class. I asked what he was like. My boy said be was nice, but that he got upset sometimes, i tried to say something useful, and my son cut me off and said "it's ok dad, everyone is different and I like him".
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Old 04-27-2012, 09:16 PM   #25
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I have little to add other than, Thanks for sharing what you witnessed Undercover. I called someone close to me and shared it with them. They appreciated it.
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Old 04-27-2012, 09:42 PM   #26
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That's a great story. Thanks for sharing. Awesome to see kids so young willing to help out others.
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Old 04-28-2012, 06:12 AM   #27
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Kindergarten is all about distractions, I think sometimes we take normal kids behavior in a chaotic social environment and want to attach medical conditions to it, or mental conditions to it.

When I was that young I would have been hopped up on so many pills that I would still be a zombie. Once I learned the words to the song Valley of the Dinosaurs, I was bellowing that out at the top of my lungs for 8 hours a day for a month.
Yep. I was considered a 'Hyperactive' kid. Now what do they call it? ADD? ADHD? And then it has about 15 sub-categories so they can rape you with 15 repeat visits?

Anyway, the doctor put me on an industrial dose of Ritalin, and it turned me into a total Zombie drone. It broke my parents heart, and they took me off of it once they realized what it was doing to me. So then I turned into the Natural Peanut Butter / Carob Kid. That was probably worse. All the other kids got Hot Chocolate, and I had my mushy, warm cup of regurgitated fake chocolate, and peanut butter that looked like someone chewed up peanuts and spit them on the bread..lol. And it always took explaining..lol. All the other kids would come over and look in my thermos cup like it was some sort of Science Experiment, then make fun of Carob kid, then we would go out in the snow and make explosive diarreah sounds as we threw it in the snow. Ahhhh memories.

But I digress. My old man has always said in his opinion "You weren't hyperactive, you were just an outspoken a-hole that always had to be the centre of attention." And I agree CC. Sometimes it almost seems Orwellian, that a kid that is outspoken, or super energetic is considered to have a 'disorder' per se, and that has always bugged me. Maybe he is exactly that, just a junior jerk.

Can I wander a little off topic at times? As per the above...yeah. Do I sometimes bite off way more than I can chew? Sure. Do I have issues concentrating with work sometimes?.... yep. But that is just who I am, and how I roll. With all of those downfalls there is a ton of upside to being a total OCD, scatterbrain , whirlwind, clusterfata...and it is who I am. I think moulding children's behaviour can be very dangerous in their future development, and cause potential harm, and regressed feelings in adulthood. I can look back at being Carob kid and laugh now. I don't think I would be laughing it my parents had followed doctors orders, and my entire childhood was a forgotten, doped up blur. I would certainly have issues with that.
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Old 04-28-2012, 07:28 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by undercoverbrother View Post
So the Boy just went out to play after getting home from school. When he came home I asked how his day was. He said it was good and asked if I could volunteer again. I asked who he played with this afternoon, he listed of 3-4 kids and one of those was the "troubled boy" in his class. I asked what he was like. My boy said be was nice, but that he got upset sometimes, i tried to say something useful, and my son cut me off and said "it's ok dad, everyone is different and I like him".
It sounds as though both the school and the teacher are doing some very valuable work. No doubt autistic children can be a challenge to work with in the classroom and those kinds of attitudes in peers are signs of a strong system of teacher, admin, parents and support working together. Not easy to do and a real positive sign.

Yesterday I was talking with my wife about all the greed, superficiality and selfishness we see living in Shanghai, but working in education I at least feel that whatever corrupting influences there may be my job is still basically about helping people every day. Although Shanghai, and lots of the world, seems to value people more for what they can earn for themselves rather than value they bring to their community I still feel that teaching is a worthwhile way to spend a life.
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Old 04-28-2012, 07:51 AM   #29
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Handicapped children in general tend to do better when they aren't segregated and treated differently. Obviously there are examples where this isn't possible because of the severity, but they are humans and humans are social creatures. Social interaction is practically a necessity for a developing mind.
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Old 04-28-2012, 09:19 AM   #30
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Yep. I was considered a 'Hyperactive' kid. Now what do they call it? ADD? ADHD? And then it has about 15 sub-categories so they can rape you with 15 repeat visits?
That's pretty ignorant, ADHD isn't just hyperactivity, it's very real and has a very real and significant negative impact on the kids who really do have it.

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Anyway, the doctor put me on an industrial dose of Ritalin, and it turned me into a total Zombie drone. It broke my parents heart, and they took me off of it once they realized what it was doing to me.
Sometimes it can take trying 5-10 different medications and a constant communication between the teachers, parents, and pediatrician to find the one that treats the ADHD but doesn't turn the kid into a "zombie".

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But I digress. My old man has always said in his opinion "You weren't hyperactive, you were just an outspoken a-hole that always had to be the centre of attention." And I agree CC. Sometimes it almost seems Orwellian, that a kid that is outspoken, or super energetic is considered to have a 'disorder' per se, and that has always bugged me. Maybe he is exactly that, just a junior jerk.
ADHD is far more than just outspoken and energetic. For a real case of ADHD, there's significant safety issues, social issues, and much more. And medication is only one small aspect of an overall approach. Everything from discipline to education to social skills all have to be done differently to be effective, and it requires a lot more work and planning.

The whole goal of medication and all the other things that should be being done in concert with the medication is to let the kid grow up as who they are without the huge negative aspects, not to change the kid.

If you are in a room trying to talk to one person, and everyone else in the room is yelling so loud you can't hear the person you are talking to, is asking everyone else to stop yelling changing you? No, it's just asking everyone else to stop yelling so that you can hold the conversation with the person. The right medication at the right dose, that's all it does.

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I don't think I would be laughing it my parents had followed doctors orders, and my entire childhood was a forgotten, doped up blur. I would certainly have issues with that.
Obviously bad parents are obviously bad, if they try and dope their kids up that's not good. But I've met hundreds of different parents with kids with ADD/ADHD and none of them do this. They agonize over medication and spend huge amounts of time to find the right one that has a positive effect without any negative. These parents that dope up their kids probably exist, but so what? They're not the norm of caring parents and child care providers, and it's certainly not the goal of the health care system, or anyone reasonable.
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Old 04-28-2012, 09:54 AM   #31
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What would it be like if we moved all kids/people to special settings to be with their "OWN".

Inclusion is where its at and it has a huge benefit for kids to see that everyone is different and everyone learns differently. I would LOVE for there to be autistic kids, down kids, CP kids, kids in wheelchairs in my sons classroom. It teaches them to be sensitive to others around them and to he helpful and tollerable to peers that may have certain obstacles they are dealing with.

Nothing would make me prouder as a parent for my son/daughter to learn and understand about kids that are "different". Math, volleyball, track, etc... meh..... What counts in life is how my kids treat others and the rest will follow.... just my 2 cents
I agree with this 100%... From kindergarten-graduation there was a boy who went to school with my (Timmy)(no not South Park Joke)... Anyway, Tim was disabled... I really don't know what it was that he had, I think it might have been multiple things.

of course he took his few classes each day, but every other class was the same classes we all took in public school. Everyone knew who he was, and I don't think a single kid in any of the 3 schools we attended would ever consider making fun if him, and treating him different. It was pretty emotional to see him graduate, as almost everyone had gone to school with him their whole life, he got a standing ovation from every student and parent in the place.

He was great at communicating and making friends, and you only wonder how singled out in life he would be had he been thrown in a school or classes with only the learning disabled.

I personally learned a lot about treating others with mutual respect by going to school with Tim.
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Old 04-28-2012, 10:00 AM   #32
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Adding to the previous comment, I've notice that many parents are very careful when they give their children medication as well, so that the kids are focused at the appropriate times and ensuring that the meds will have faded by the time school is out.

It isn't easy to give kids these types of medication, but at the same time, when it's used appropriately kids can grow to learn to manage the medication in different environments when it is necessary.

I know a couple adults who have eventually stopped needing any medication because they've chosen careers and environments that fit their personality, unfortunately given the school system, it is a difficult environment for everyone to fit into.

The original story is a great way for kids to get together and help each other through processes as well.
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Old 04-30-2012, 08:29 AM   #33
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Very cool story, sounds like a very well adjusted kid.

My son has a special needs kid in his kindergarten class. She is wheelchair bound and non-verbal. She gets out of her chair during reading time to stretch on the floor and that is about it. She sits in on music and will hold a music box while the rest of the class sings, but that is about it for real interaction with the class.

My son absolutely loves her, sits with her at snack, has her go down to the office with him to take the attendence when it is his day to be "special helper". He is the only kid that this girl won't bite and he wants to have her over to play and have her come to his birthday.

His teacher and this girls full time helper have given us so many compliments about how our son is so loving and helpful toward this girl. The thing is, I am not even sure we had ever discussed people with special needs before he went to school this year. It is all on my son. I am very proud of him.
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Old 04-30-2012, 09:27 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by photon View Post
That's pretty ignorant, ADHD isn't just hyperactivity, it's very real and has a very real and significant negative impact on the kids who really do have it.



Sometimes it can take trying 5-10 different medications and a constant communication between the teachers, parents, and pediatrician to find the one that treats the ADHD but doesn't turn the kid into a "zombie".



ADHD is far more than just outspoken and energetic. For a real case of ADHD, there's significant safety issues, social issues, and much more. And medication is only one small aspect of an overall approach. Everything from discipline to education to social skills all have to be done differently to be effective, and it requires a lot more work and planning.

The whole goal of medication and all the other things that should be being done in concert with the medication is to let the kid grow up as who they are without the huge negative aspects, not to change the kid.

If you are in a room trying to talk to one person, and everyone else in the room is yelling so loud you can't hear the person you are talking to, is asking everyone else to stop yelling changing you? No, it's just asking everyone else to stop yelling so that you can hold the conversation with the person. The right medication at the right dose, that's all it does.



Obviously bad parents are obviously bad, if they try and dope their kids up that's not good. But I've met hundreds of different parents with kids with ADD/ADHD and none of them do this. They agonize over medication and spend huge amounts of time to find the right one that has a positive effect without any negative. These parents that dope up their kids probably exist, but so what? They're not the norm of caring parents and child care providers, and it's certainly not the goal of the health care system, or anyone reasonable.
Awesome post.

Something I thought I would point out as well, many FAS disorders also manifest with very similar symptoms to ADHD, but with very different reactions to the medications. That makes the challenges of dosing even harder if you don't know for sure one way or another. Normally, that isn't much of an issue but sometimes drinking during pregnancy is not noticed/remembered if it occurs early enough, but it can also be problematic in situations where the mother won't admit to drinking - Most doctors can't (or simply wont) diagnose and treat FASD without an admission to drinking during pregnancy.
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Old 04-30-2012, 10:25 AM   #35
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If I go home and make my wife read your post she will cry. Anyone else have a wife like this?
I actually love it. It's one of my favorite things about her.

my wife is a teachers aid and her area is working with autistic kids. She would ask wtf kind of teacher is sitting a special needs kid out in hallway by himself.
She would then bitch about the lack of funding from the govt to hire more special needs kids teachers assistants.
She would then bitch about the fact the head HR person in her school district has decided to make all TA's the same level and at the same pay, without consulting anyone. So, a person helping a kid with a reading disability (level 1) will make the same wage as a person that has a nursing background and can administer medications with needles(level 6). These people who can help with the kids in wheelchairs who cannot even control their body functions and move their limbs etc. will earn the same. Kind of unbeliavable one person decided that for 1,000's of teacher aids.
So the people that justifiably earn more have the wages cut back, and everyone else has a wage freeze until the very bottom people catch up. My wife I think is a level 4 and she's not too happy. So anyone who has special needs kids going to school, know that their assistant may not be qualified or gaf about your kid anymore.
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Old 04-30-2012, 10:29 AM   #36
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Ah the innocence of children, so nice to see before they are ruined by the ruthlessness of the real world.
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