My first time to Europe - looking for some advice

[kipperfan]

Okay CP - I am leaving for a European vacation in 12 days and figured it is time to talk to CP and get some last minute recommendations on where to go, what to do, where to eat..etc. I would appreciate any type of advise whether from personal expiernce or a book you have read or whatever - I have never been to Europe and though have all my destinations planned, I want to know the "must do" or "must go" places in these areas of the world.

First I suppose I should tell you all where I am going, I am flying into Paris and staying for 4 days, from there onto Venice and Milan, then up into Zermatt Switzerland for a few days of skiing. After that I head down into Naples and Mount Vesuvius for 2 days, to Rome for 3, Barcelona for 2, Madrid for 2, Berlin for 2, Frankfurt for 2, Amsterdam for 2 and hopefully a trip to Vimy Ridge to top it all off before going back to Paris to catch the flight home.

So have you been to these cities? Surrounding areas? Give me some tips!

[Kybosh]

Looks like a lot of stuff packed into a relatively short time frame. It should be alright as long as you don't mind spending significant amounts of time on planes/trains/automobiles. The only thing I would suggest is to skip Frankfurt. If you want another German city, go to Munich instead.

In addition, I would suggest cutting out one or two areas from this trip so you can have more time to absorb in the other areas. For example, cut out Spain for this trip and leave it for another time. That can give you a few more days in Italy or France to see some things other than the big cities.

[driveway]

I can give you some advice on Paris:

1) Don't bother with Versailles. It's not as impressive as you would hope.

2) The art museums of Paris are incredible. Specifically The Louvre, the Musee D'Orsay and the Centre Pompidou. Each one is huge, architecturally amazing, and covers a different period of history. If you have the energy, all three are worth a visit, but if you're not the kind of person who enjoys looking at Art I would suggest visiting whichever most appeals to you.

The Louvre covers the history of Art from Egypt - Early 19th Century. It's an utterly unbelievable building too. If you're a history buff, this is the one for you.

The Musee D'Orsay covers the period from around 1850-1910 or so. It's got your impressionists, expressionists and the birth of modern art. Van Gogh, Matisse, Monet are all heavily represented. The building is an old train-station and is amazing.

The Centre Pompidou is Modern Art. The building is incredibly modern in design and the collection is almost overwhealming. Duchamp, Calder, Pollock etc.

If you are not a museum person, but still want to experience some of the Parisian art scene there are two awesome places to check out. The Salvador Dali museum up in Montmartre (very close to Sacre Couer, the big church on the hill) and The Orangerie at the West end of the park that the Louvre fronts onto (about fifteen blocks from the Louvre). Both are small, cheap and can be viewed in their entirety in under two hours.

Finally - if you are a museum person and want to see it all, Paris offers a Museum Pass. It gives you admission to basically every museum in the city (dozens and dozens) as well as access to the towers of Notre Dame. You can get a 2 day or 4 day pass for about 30 or 50 euros. They are sold at most major metro stations.

3) EAT. Eat anything and everything. It's all good.

4) Visit L'Eglise St. Eustache. It's the second largest church in Paris (after Notre Dame) and has a minuscule crowd. I think there were about eight people in it when I went there.

[4X4]

Ahh, Naples. The Edmonton of Italy. Here's some advice: beware of pickpocketers in Italy and don't fall asleep on the train if you're traveling alone. I could go on and on about Rome, but I already have, in other Europe threads. Most of the cities you've asked about have been extensively described in said threads by various posters. Do a thread search on Europe and some of these cities and bask in CP's warm glowing warming glow.

Just a question, is that the order you're doing your trip in? Seems a little jumpy. If it was a bit more circular you'd spend alot less time traveling and more time sightseeing.

[arsenal]

I would say skip Frankfurt as well too. I was there for a few days, didn't really see a whole lot, but I am not sure there is a whole lot to see.

[kipperfan]

Yes, great advice so far - TBQH I was thinking of cutting down the amount of places I am going as it is going to be ardoues on the train. I have alot of plans made in Paris, Venice and Zermatt (though would still love advice on thses spots) but after that am much more wide open.

So cutting out Spain is an idea.....I am really big on History, war history in particular and do not want to miss Germany so I think Spain is the only country that could be cut. If I was to cut those 5 days where would be a good place to add them?

As for the order of the trip, yes it is a bit odd. I am meeting up with someone in Zermatt and kind of had to change the order of things because of that, not ideal but I dont think the train travel should be too bad with my media player (see other thread!).

[Bagor]

My advice.

Cut half your destinations out. Far too many and spread out.

Trying to see too much can result in seeing nothing. You'll come home with a lot of places ticked but few memories.

Venice is overrated IMO.

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by driveway

I can give you some advice on Paris:

1) Don't bother with Versailles. It's not as impressive as you would hope.

2) The art museums of Paris are incredible. Specifically The Louvre, the Musee D'Orsay and the Centre Pompidou. Each one is huge, architecturally amazing, and covers a different period of history. If you have the energy, all three are worth a visit, but if you're not the kind of person who enjoys looking at Art I would suggest visiting whichever most appeals to you.

The Louvre covers the history of Art from Egypt - Early 19th Century. It's an utterly unbelievable building too. If you're a history buff, this is the one for you.

The Musee D'Orsay covers the period from around 1850-1910 or so. It's got your impressionists, expressionists and the birth of modern art. Van Gogh, Matisse, Monet are all heavily represented. The building is an old train-station and is amazing.

The Centre Pompidou is Modern Art. The building is incredibly modern in design and the collection is almost overwhealming. Duchamp, Calder, Pollock etc.

If you are not a museum person, but still want to experience some of the Parisian art scene there are two awesome places to check out. The Salvador Dali museum up in Montmartre (very close to Sacre Couer, the big church on the hill) and The Orangerie at the West end of the park that the Louvre fronts onto (about fifteen blocks from the Louvre). Both are small, cheap and can be viewed in their entirety in under two hours.

Finally - if you are a museum person and want to see it all, Paris offers a Museum Pass. It gives you admission to basically every museum in the city (dozens and dozens) as well as access to the towers of Notre Dame. You can get a 2 day or 4 day pass for about 30 or 50 euros. They are sold at most major metro stations.

3) EAT. Eat anything and everything. It's all good.

4) Visit L'Eglise St. Eustache. It's the second largest church in Paris (after Notre Dame) and has a minuscule crowd. I think there were about eight people in it when I went there.

Beautiful advice, thanks a ton - this is exactly the kind of stuff I was hoping for with this thread!

That museum pass sounds amazing and I think I will be looking into it ASAP!

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by Bagor

My advice.

Cut half your destinations out. Far too many and spread out.

Trying to see too much can result in seeing nothing. You'll come home with a lot of places ticked but few memories.

Venice is overrated IMO.

I have thought about this, but I feel with 30 days I can see all I want to, esspecially if I did cut out Spain (as has been mentioned above). I may be a fool, but I will not cut down the destinations further then getting rid of Spain (at the very most).

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by arsenal

I would say skip Frankfurt as well too. I was there for a few days, didn't really see a whole lot, but I am not sure there is a whole lot to see.

Hmm with two of you saying this I think I'll have to listen. So Munich would be a better choice?

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

I have thought about this, but I feel with 30 days I can see all I want to, esspecially if I did cut out Spain (as has been mentioned above). I may be a fool, but I will not cut down the destinations further then getting rid of Spain (at the very most).

Having said that i did a quick look on Ryan air and was able to land a flight from Rome - Barcelona for 25 euro (taxes included). Flight was 3 euro.

Might be worth looking into also.

[Dodsdomd]

Unless you are going to see AC Milan or Inter or are a fashion fiend I'd give Milan a miss. Not much going on there in my opinion.

Berlin and Madrid are mad if you're into late nights.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Bagor

My advice.

Cut half your destinations out. Far too many and spread out.

Trying to see too much can result in seeing nothing. You'll come home with a lot of places ticked but few memories.

Venice is overrated IMO.

Damn. I spent a year in Italy and never bothered to go to Venice. But I did go to Milan and there's nothing there. For a first timer in Italy, the most important places to go are Florence and Rome and if you can make it, take a day trip down to Pompeii (Vesuvius). The very second you arrive in Naples, you'll want to leave. It is, by far, the dirtiest and sketchyist city I saw in Europe. There is nothing there that isn't in other, cleaner, better cities. Once you see St. Peter's Basilica and the Duomo in Florence, all other Italian churches will warrant a 'meh'.

If you consolidate your time in Italy into Florence and Rome, you'll see an assload more and you'll be glad. There are tons of museums and sites between the two cities that will give you the real feel of urban and ancient Italy without having to waste time in places like Milan and Naples.
Milan is fashion-ey and kinda modern. Not really "Italy". Naples is just a hole. Dilapidated, dirty, dog sh1t on the sidewalks, trash everywhere, laundry hanging off all the windows, nothing to see, people that like to rob.
Seriously, do Pompeii as a day trip from Rome and skip Naples.
And go to Florence. Probably the most beautiful city in Italy.

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Damn. I spent a year in Italy and never bothered to go to Venice. But I did go to Milan and there's nothing there. For a first timer in Italy, the most important places to go are Florence and Rome and if you can make it, take a day trip down to Pompeii (Vesuvius). The very second you arrive in Naples, you'll want to leave. It is, by far, the dirtiest and sketchyist city I saw in Europe. There is nothing there that isn't in other, cleaner, better cities. Once you see St. Peter's Basilica and the Duomo in Florence, all other Italian churches will warrant a 'meh'.

If you consolidate your time in Italy into Florence and Rome, you'll see an assload more and you'll be glad. There are tons of museums and sites between the two cities that will give you the real feel of urban and ancient Italy without having to waste time in places like Milan and Naples.
Milan is fashion-ey and kinda modern. Not really "Italy". Naples is just a hole. Dilapidated, dirty, dog sh1t on the sidewalks, trash everywhere, laundry hanging off all the windows, nothing to see, people that like to rob.
Seriously, do Pompeii as a day trip from Rome and skip Naples.
And go to Florence. Probably the most beautiful city in Italy.

Thanks 4x4, thats really good stuff. I have a good buddy who has been through Italy and he has similar things to say about Naples but advised me i had to go to the area simply to see Vesuvuis and Pompei. The thing for me is Naples is way out of the way, it would be alot easier and faster for me to go right from Zermatt to Rome or even Florence....but I would miss Pompei.

What is your take on this 4x4, should I make the trip down to the Naples region simply for Vesuvuis?

[Jagger]

Interesting. I've visited all of the places you've mentioned and there has been some great advice so far.

Definitely give Frankfurt a miss. It's a great stopping off place when flying and that's it. Munich is a must see as far as German cities goes.

Paris is an awesome place. My favourite 'big' city. driveway hit the right notes on Paris although I like Versailles. Perhaps not at this time of year though.

4x4 is spot on about pickpockets in Italy. It happened to me and many other people I know. (Only a dummy wallet of mine, but still, it's a pain.)

Milan I would miss for exactly the reasons already stated.

Venice is not really overrated imo. My wife and I really enjoyed our time there. It's unique.

You really must cut down the whistle stop tour though, as it sounds like you will be doing now, as you will not see that much except the inside of train stations etc.

Sounds fun. I envy you. Good luck and stay safe.

[Howie_16]

If you are interested in war history, here are my recommendations for your time in Berlin:

1) Deutsches Historisches Museum: Excellent display of German history. Gives an indepth context of German history and day to day life leading up to, during, and between both World Wars. I ended up going back here for a second day.

2) Topographie des Terrors - An outdoor display set in the former headquarters of the Gestapo. Excellent source of Third Reich history.

3) If you are also interested in Cold War history, check out the Museum am Checkpoint Charlie (history relating to the Berlin Wall, escape attempts, etc.) and/or DDR museum (Did not go here, but seems to focus on daily life in East Germany) but not until after the DHM.

I agree with other posters here in that Frankfurt can be skipped. Go to Munich or spend two more days in Berlin. Berlin is huge, but there is lots to see and it is really easy to get around by subway.

[4X4]

Don't miss Pompeii, just skip Naples. It's a very easy day trip from Rome. And if you tack on the two days you had budgeted for Naples to Rome, you get a bonus day in Rome and trust me, there's PLENTY to see in Rome. Here's a link:

http://rome-hotels.tripadvisor.com/S...ome_Lazio.html

As for the rome stuff, I've posted so much stuff on it in other threads, I just don't want to post it again. To a CP search. I think one thread was actually called Rome and I posted a ton in there.

[Machiavelli]

What's the deal with Pompeii?

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Don't miss Pompeii, just skip Naples. It's a very easy day trip from Rome. And if you tack on the two days you had budgeted for Naples to Rome, you get a bonus day in Rome and trust me, there's PLENTY to see in Rome. Here's a link:

http://rome-hotels.tripadvisor.com/S...ome_Lazio.html

As for the rome stuff, I've posted so much stuff on it in other threads, I just don't want to post it again. To a CP search. I think one thread was actually called Rome and I posted a ton in there.

Alright I will do that search and thank you again for your help as I think I will be taking your advice - thank godness I had nothing booked in Naples!

And Howie 16 - thanks alot for the Berline advice, I am a war buff and will likely hit up all of those muesums, thanks again.

[Sylvanfan]

I would cut out Milan and replace it with Florence or more day's in Rome. Rome and Paris are two cities where you can spend 5-6 days there and still not see everything.