Too many [mod edit]: people with quads, 4x4s... - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

OracleOfCalgary · 05-20-2007, 01:43 PM

Anybody catch this article in the Herald...

Wilderness 'abuses' surprise Morton

Minister tours area overrun by random campers, mud boggers

Renata D'Aliesio, Calgary Herald

Published: Sunday, May 20, 2007
Sustainable Resource Development Minister Ted Morton got a first-hand look at the damage being done by people spending the long weekend near Chain Lakes Provincial Park.
He didn't like what he saw as he surveyed the area known as Indian Graves, located southwest of Calgary and across a gravel road from Kananaskis Country.
The scene included a chaotic jungle of trailers, tents and vehicles, mud-caked riders roaring about on quads and dirt bikes and souped-up trucks bouncing in the distance, ripping through streams and bogs.

It's on the front page of the Herald web site if you care to read it all.

the_hound · 05-20-2007, 01:49 PM

Minister tours area overrun by random campers, mud boggers

Ok, yah..... "Random" ...... It's called May long, and it happens every year.

Delthefunky · 05-20-2007, 02:08 PM

I just drove through there on my bike the other day, I was on the main road the whole time. It was pretty sick, probably atleast a 1000 people camping, all with quads and dirtbikes, and the trails looked ugly.

Superfraggle · 05-20-2007, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_hound

Minister tours area overrun by random campers, mud boggers

Ok, yah..... "Random" ...... It's called May long, and it happens every year.

"Random Camping" means camping outside of a designated area. Like if you're hiking and put your tent down in a clear area because there are no designated campsites where you are, that's random camping. Random, because the location is somewhat random, not because the fact that you're camping is random.

Azure · 05-20-2007, 03:42 PM

Losers eh?

skins · 05-20-2007, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_hound

Minister tours area overrun by random campers, mud boggers

Ok, yah..... "Random" ...... It's called May long, and it happens every year.

It sounds like it meant random as in, they were randomly spread about, not really in any kind of order.

not that this time of year is random to be camping.

4X4 · 05-20-2007, 03:54 PM

So what's the problem? Something wrong with 4x4ing and quadding and camping? What's your hobby and why is it any 'ccoler' than us 'losers' that camp and 4x4?

Table 5 · 05-20-2007, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4X4

So what's the problem? Something wrong with 4x4ing and quadding and camping? What's your hobby and why is it any 'ccoler' than us 'losers' that camp and 4x4?

Chances are whatever his hobby is, it doesnt completely rip apart and destroy a massive chunk of the outdoors...outdoors that others want to enjoy down the line.

There's nothing wrong with camping and being outdoors, as long as you leave it the same way you found it. Quading and 4x4ing generally doesn't do this. Most of the time its a bunch of rednecks just getting wasted and leaving a total mess for others to clean up.

4X4 · 05-20-2007, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Table 5

Chances are whatever his hobby is, it doesnt completely rip apart and destroy a massive chunk of the outdoors...outdoors that others want to enjoy down the line.

Rip apart and destroy what? Dirt? Mud? Did I damage the mud by driving through it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Table 5

There's nothing wrong with camping and being outdoors, as long as you leave it the same way you found it. Quading and 4x4ing generally doesn't do this. Most of the time its a bunch of rednecks just getting wasted and leaving a total mess for others to clean up.

I don't know where you go camping, but I go to the 4x4 areas at Mclean and Indian Graves often (should be there right now, actually) and for the size of the tent cities that pop up on the long weekend, it's pretty darn clean monday night.

There's always a couple of bozos that leave their mess, but 95% of us leave it just as clean as when we got there.

redforever · 05-20-2007, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Table 5

Chances are whatever his hobby is, it doesnt completely rip apart and destroy a massive chunk of the outdoors...outdoors that others want to enjoy down the line.

There's nothing wrong with camping and being outdoors, as long as you leave it the same way you found it. Quading and 4x4ing generally doesn't do this. Most of the time its a bunch of rednecks just getting wasted and leaving a total mess for others to clean up.

And that is the gist of the problem. The wilderness is being ruined and no longer is in pristine shape.

4X4 · 05-20-2007, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redforever

And that is the gist of the problem. The wilderness is being ruined and no longer is in pristine shape.

How is it being ruined?

the_hound · 05-20-2007, 04:29 PM

Isnt that what some of these sites are for ? Quading etc. ? I dont see the big deal, its been going on for YEARS, and now suddenly it's an issue ! Must've been a slow news day

Table 5 · 05-20-2007, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4X4

How is it being ruined?

are you kidding? if somebody took a 4x4 and went ape on your front lawn, would that be ok? i mean, hey its just grass right?

these places are habitats for all sorts of animals and wildlife, you dont think your massive tires are doing these places harm? how do you think they got to be just mud?

considering so many of us treasure the beauty of our outdoors, it's important we keep them as pristine as possible when we are out there. If most people are careful and clean up, great. But we need to make sure the few morons who don't are stopped.

PYroMaNiaC · 05-20-2007, 04:46 PM

4X4, as someone who has occasionally indulged in quadding and mudding in my own very large backyard, I can understand where these folks are coming from. I know that if I drive through the puddles and mud too often, when the trail is dry, it makes passing difficult. I can very easily tear up the paths that run throughout our 1/2 section. In fact, not of my own doing but from allowing others occasional use, there is a trail to the river that is no longer passable by even a 4x4 truck. My dad can manage on the tractor, but he gets mad just driving by. We will have to lay down metal pipe and a ton of gravel to make it passable again.

I'm not saying that your hobby isn't fun and exciting, but irresponsible drivers leave a very negative impression. The same as any other hobby, like hunting or fishing or camping, or hockey fans. The bad ones ruin it for everyone.

Juventus3 · 05-20-2007, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4X4

How is it being ruined?

You can't be serious. The use of 4x4s, quads, etc. absolutely destroys any area they're permitted. That's one of the reasons the use of them is restricted to certain areas. I don't mind the activity itself, and respect that people enjoy it as a hobby, but it sure as hell ruins the area.

Burninator · 05-20-2007, 04:56 PM

I don't think the 4x4ing was the only problem, but it was certainly part of the problem. It just seemed liked everyone was generally being irresponsible. They said it takes them over a month to clean up the mess. On the front of the Herald there was a picture of a jeep of some sort up side down and smashed to all hell. Someone just abandoned it there, that's completely uncalled for. There was also a group of campers who brought a bunch of living room couches, which in all likely hood will get left there. That's what the problem is, people are going out there and just trashing the place. Either by 4x4ing around and tearing up the ground, or leaving tons of trash to be cleaned up someone else.

Camping is going to leave some damage to the environment, and it is to be expected. But a bunch of these campers are going over board.

4X4 · 05-20-2007, 05:09 PM

Garbage being left is one thing... I agree that that is uncalled for.

I'm arguing the question of whether my truck destroys the wilderness. It certainly alters it. Us 4x4ers carve out paths and widen existing ones by driving it.
How is this destruction? How is it different than a hiking path?
Who decides what is "enjoying the wilderness"? Are you telling me that designated OHV areas destroy designated OHV-free zones?
No. They don't. So if you don't like OHVs, stay the hell out of the OHV areas.

Sort of like how I stay out of church.

Juventus3 · 05-20-2007, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4X4

Garbage being left is one thing... I agree that that is uncalled for.

I'm arguing the question of whether my truck destroys the wilderness. It certainly alters it. Us 4x4ers carve out paths and widen existing ones by driving it.
How is this destruction? How is it different than a hiking path?
Who decides what is "enjoying the wilderness"? Are you telling me that designated OHV areas destroy designated OHV-free zones?
No. They don't. So if you don't like OHVs, stay the hell out of the OHV areas.

Sort of like how I stay out of church.

lol, good post. I agree that any type of use does alter the landscape from it's original state. That said, size 12 shoes can't be compared to those huge knobby tires on a Jeep TJ.

Burninator · 05-20-2007, 05:34 PM

I am just going to speculate about the 4x4ing and give what I think are two groups of 4x4ers.

I think there is a group who generally take established trails when 4x4ing. Or try to form a new path that is going to useful. The other group is the one that tool around in a field and tear it up for the sake of tearing it up. Same goes for people in this group that knock down tress and destroy streams. Nothing is really accomplished other destruction.

I am sure there are times when people from the first group wonder into the second group after an afternoon of bogging.

The difference between the groups is the one will form a new trail if there isn't a trail in place, or they make a more challenging trail. Basically their damage consists of a straight line. The other group isn't forming a new trail, because their damage is more in the form of a explosion. I don't go 4x4ing, but I think people should be allowed to do it. Not where ever they want, and of course they have to exercise some responsibility and common sense. But I think for the most part off roaders act in a reasonable manner and try and minimize their damage and this case is just a small (drunk) percentage ruining it for the rest. And the good ones will end up paying the price for the dumb ones.

OHV is?

4X4 · 05-20-2007, 05:46 PM

OHV = Off Highway Vehicles

I know I shouldn't get so defensive because there are too many idiots out there trashing the wilderness, so you guys do have a valid point. What really ticks me off are these statements that 4x4ing destroys the pristine wilderness.
You know what? There's plenty of wilderness to go around. And there are alot of people that enjoy this activity. So why shouldn't we have our playgrounds? How is a big OHV zone any different than a freaking golf course? At least we don't put up fences to keep animals out.