Large explosion in Damascus, Syria

[blankall]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Russian sources are saying that Assad is going to make an official declaration of war against Israel.

Russian sources are often not the best though.

Syria and Israel are already at war. At no time has a peace agreement between these two countries been signed.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by blankall

Syria and Israel are already at war. At no time has a peace agreement between these two countries been signed.

Israel seems to be at war with the whole middle east.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by T@T

Israel seems to be at war with the whole middle east.

Pretty easy for that to happen when Israel has been constantly attacked through out their existence, been threatened with extermination and not recognized.

Yeah I wonder why they would develop a bunker mentality.

,

[sureLoss]

In an exclusive interview with CNN hours after a series of massive explosions illuminated the predawn sky in Damascus, Deputy Foreign Minister Faisal al Mekdad said the attack represented an alliance between Islamic terrorists and Israel.

Wow this is Iraqi Minister of Information delusional.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Wow this is Iraqi Minister of Information delusional.

The Americans are committing suicide by the thousands at our gates!

[blankall]

Originally Posted by T@T

Israel seems to be at war with the whole middle east.

No. Israel has made peace treaties with Jordan, Egypt, and Turkey. The arab league has stated they will not recognize Israel and instructed all its members to never make any treaties with Israel. Egypt was thrown out of the Arab league for a decade after they made a peace deal with Israel. A deal where Israel agreed to return all of the Egyptian land they won in the 1967 war.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by blankall

Naw.

I'd say Israel, Turkey, and the US all want as little to do with this conflict as possible.

This might be true, but since they're definition of "as little as possible" still includes options like airstrikes and monetary support, it doesn't really matter that much to the Syrians.

They're in this.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Itse

This might be true, but since they're definition of "as little as possible" still includes options like airstrikes and monetary support, it doesn't really matter that much to the Syrians.

They're in this.

The airstrikes have nothing to do with supporting either side. It's in Israel's best interest to have a stable Syria run by Assad, when the other option is a chaotic Syria or a Syria run by Sunni fundamentalists. The airstrikes happened, because Israel saw an easy opportunity to weaken Hezbollah.

There's all sorts of reports coming from the Syrian govenrment about Israel using these strikes to "rally" the rebels. However, I hardly see how a group made up of the "arab people" and Sunni fundamentalists is going to want Israel's support. The optics of that alone are going to be enough to kill any support for them from the Arab world, which is where the real change will come from. Basically, I don't think anyone is buying that story but Assad and the anti-Israelis who'll buy anything.

As far as monetary support for rebels, there is no long term commitment there. The USA can walk away at any time. Thus far, they've given amounts in the 10s of millions, which have largely been used for "non-lethal" supplies. When you consider that Russia has given the Assad regime billions of dollars, it's a pretty small amount. If anything, it's just to appease their own conscience. If the rebels start getting too nasty, the pressure on the US to keep providing support will dry up quickly.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by blankall

The airstrikes have nothing to do with supporting either side.

Yes, but as long as they're doing it anyway, who cares? The results and the tensions created are the same.

As far as monetary support for rebels, there is no long term commitment there. The USA can walk away at any time.

"I can quit any time I like". Because nobody ever gets caught in things without wanting to.

Thus far, they've given amounts in the 10s of millions, which have largely been used for "non-lethal" supplies.

Even assuming that the US either could or would track the use of that money (they sure did a fine job at that in Iraq and Afghanistan), money is money.

If you give the rebels money to buy food, that means they can use more of their other funds to buy arms. The end result is the same.

Generally speaking wars keep going as long as money keeps pouring to both sides.

(EDIT: Note that I'm not against supporting the Syrian rebels. But it's still a bloody mess.)

[FlamesAddiction]

Not sure about the source, but there are rumours going around that according to UN sources, the rebels may have in fact used chemical weapons on Assad's troops.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/globa...rin-gas/64897/

[CaptainCrunch]

Still a lot of rumors bouncing around about the chemical gas usage by the rebels and which faction of the rebels.

The U.S. has destroyed most of its stock of chemical weapons supposedly claiming 90% of its original 31,000 ton stock is gone with the focus on nerve gasses.

The major manufacturers of nerve gas like Sarin are Iran, Korea, Russia, China and Syria.

The shelf life of Sarin is short and measures in weeks and I doubt that the rebels have access to the complex storage procedures needed to extend that life.

Its just as likely that the Rebels took it from Syrian bunkers.

What's the America reaction though on the whole game changer thing if it is the rebels?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Still a lot of rumors bouncing around about the chemical gas usage by the rebels and which faction of the rebels.

The U.S. has destroyed most of its stock of chemical weapons supposedly claiming 90% of its original 31,000 ton stock is gone with the focus on nerve gasses.

The major manufacturers of nerve gas like Sarin are Iran, Korea, Russia, China and Syria.

The shelf life of Sarin is short and measures in weeks and I doubt that the rebels have access to the complex storage procedures needed to extend that life.

Its just as likely that the Rebels took it from Syrian bunkers.

What's the America reaction though on the whole game changer thing if it is the rebels?

The US is still saying that it was Assad and likely not the rebels, but the UN is sticking to their version too.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2...shot-down.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22424188

Carla del Ponte is an idiot though. She has a history or trying to equally distribute guilt and has been caught in lies before.

[CaptainCrunch]

To be honest, I usually don't have a high level of trust in the UN, so I'm taking this UN report with a grain of salt.

Usually I would be pretty firm in saying that a Sarin Chemical attack us usually a state based weapon deployment.

But with Iran and North Korea and even Syria bases being over run it could be a rebel group. There would be no real benefit for the Rebels using this kind of weaponry unless they are freaking insane. Its the quickest way to cut off international assistance. Its also impossible for untrained troops to move into those areas, even though Sarin if it was Sarin is considered to be non-persistant, it can still take it a while to breakdown from the underside of objects and even in a broken down state causes serious health issues.

Its going to create a massive instability in the region, if Sarin is getting into the hands of radical Islamic rebels, what's to stop it from getting into the hands of Hezbollah or Hamas, for the most part you don't need a major delivery system, standard artillary and mortars can all quickly lob gas shells into civilian areas and Israel's vaunted missile defense or any defense wouldn't work. Even one or two shells in a heavily populated area will kill at the least dozens and more like hundreds.

If it is the Rebels the Israeli freakout will be massive, Syria's government wouldn't cross the boundry because it would be a state based attack on Israel with weapons of mass destruction and the response from Isreal would be instantly nuclear.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Est1980

Well when a group of people walk into another country, set up shop, declare themselves another country, then start practicing apartheid against the locals, yeah people are gonna want to kill you.

Israel seems to get a free pass from the pro Semetic media and governments here, but are never held to account for the decades of segregation, murder, "resettlement", dehumanization and objectification tactics they so expertly learned from the Nazis. When they get called on their bull####, they scream racism and play the "Woe's me!" Holocaust card.

Enough is enough. Yank every single dollar, and every bullet given to them and let them stand on their two feet. But don't be surprised if they get wiped out because all they have done is make enemies of the locals.

And spare me the "They are the only democracy in the Middle East" crap too. They practice just as brutal tactics as their enemies as are practiced on them. Just because they elect the butchers, doesn't change the morality of the acts.

Why don't you tell us what you really think?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Est1980

Well when a group of people walk into another country, set up shop, declare themselves another country, then start practicing apartheid against the locals, yeah people are gonna want to kill you.

Israel seems to get a free pass from the pro Semetic media and governments here, but are never held to account for the decades of segregation, murder, "resettlement", dehumanization and objectification tactics they so expertly learned from the Nazis. When they get called on their bull####, they scream racism and play the "Woe's me!" Holocaust card.

Enough is enough. Yank every single dollar, and every bullet given to them and let them stand on their two feet. But don't be surprised if they get wiped out because all they have done is make enemies of the locals.

And spare me the "They are the only democracy in the Middle East" crap too. They practice just as brutal tactics as their enemies as are practiced on them. Just because they elect the butchers, doesn't change the morality of the acts.

Why don't you tell us what you really think? If found it a little unclear which side you were taking on this issue.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Est1980

Well when a group of people walk into another country, set up shop, declare themselves another country, then start practicing apartheid against the locals, yeah people are gonna want to kill you.

Israel seems to get a free pass from the pro Semetic media and governments here, but are never held to account for the decades of segregation, murder, "resettlement", dehumanization and objectification tactics they so expertly learned from the Nazis. When they get called on their bull####, they scream racism and play the "Woe's me!" Holocaust card.

Enough is enough. Yank every single dollar, and every bullet given to them and let them stand on their two feet. But don't be surprised if they get wiped out because all they have done is make enemies of the locals.

And spare me the "They are the only democracy in the Middle East" crap too. They practice just as brutal tactics as their enemies as are practiced on them. Just because they elect the butchers, doesn't change the morality of the acts.

Lies!!

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by Magnum PEI

Google maps uses a sliding scale so unless two places are on the same latitude the scales will be different, even though they're on the same zoom level. Assuming Vancouver = Elat/Aqaba, Kuwait should be around Regina. Also Iraq is approx. 2/3 the size of Alberta.

Thanks. Map above adjusted to account for sliding scale.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Est1980

Well when a group of people walk into another country, set up shop, declare themselves another country, then start practicing apartheid against the locals, yeah people are gonna want to kill you.

Except this is not what happened. You saying lies like this is simply spreading misinformation. As your later comments prove, you are a hateful bigot.

Originally Posted by Est1980

Israel seems to get a free pass from the pro Semetic media and governments here, but are never held to account for the decades of segregation, murder, "resettlement", dehumanization and objectification tactics they so expertly learned from the Nazis. When they get called on their bull####, they scream racism and play the "Woe's me!" Holocaust card.

Wait, quick, blame the Jews! Compare them to Nazis! Murderers! You are a loser. This is certainly not my website, but I am fairly confident losers like you spreading your hateful messages are not welcome.

Originally Posted by Est1980

Enough is enough. Yank every single dollar, and every bullet given to them and let them stand on their two feet. But don't be surprised if they get wiped out because all they have done is make enemies of the locals.

Oh wait, after how many thousands of people have been killed by Arab governments, Israel blows up some weapons and you are up in arms. Look up the term useful idiot.

Originally Posted by Est1980

And spare me the "They are the only democracy in the Middle East" crap too. They practice just as brutal tactics as their enemies as are practiced on them. Just because they elect the butchers, doesn't change the morality of the acts.

So according to you, Israel does the same brutal acts on their enemies as their enemies practice on them, yet only Israel is bad. I don't agree with pretty much anything you have typed, but it was nice knowing ya, I doubt you will be around to respond.

[Bleeding Red]

Originally Posted by Est1980

Well when a group of people walk into another country, set up shop, declare themselves another country

You mean when when a group of people walk back into the area they were exiled from. The last time the area we know as Israel (West Bank et al) was a sovereign country was when Zedikeah was king. Ancient steles in Iraq note tribute paid to Persian kings by the kings of Israel. that area has mostly been a province of other empires - most recently the Ottoman Empire & the British Empire. There was no sovereign country there in 1948 - it was British Mandate Palestine / Transjordan.

then start practicing apartheid against the locals

This is just standard slander on your part, trying to equate Israel with Apartheid era South Africa without understanding the definition of apartheid.
In Israel there are no Jewish only beaches or separate Arab entrances. Everyone can eat at the same restaurants, ride the same buses, sue their neighbors, etc. Yes, some Arab communities prefer to send their kids to Arab schools (they get government funding) - same as Catholics have a separate system in AB.

Gaza is different - No Jews Allowed there.

West Bank is also different - yes there are separate roads. Roads to Jewish communities try to bypass Arab towns for safety reasons (yes, I hear you - if they weren't there in the first place they would be safer. We can debate the Israeli Government's settlement policy in a separate forum).

Israel seems to get a free pass from the pro Semetic media and governments here

Again, BS. Israel has had more resolutions passed against it by the UN, NGO, and religious groups then any other country - mostly because they have lop sided, spiteful votes. According to the UN, Amnesty, and others Israel is more of a threat to the world than North Korea (threatening nuclear war last month), Syria (who knows how many are dying there), and Afghanistan put together.

there a no free passes for Israel.

but are never held to account for the decades of segregation, murder, "resettlement", dehumanization and objectification tactics they so expertly learned from the Nazis. When they get called on their bull####, they scream racism and play the "Woe's me!" Holocaust card.

This is not anti-Israel material. It does not question the Israeli government's policies or tactics. It is close to anti-semitism - Accusing Jews of systematic murder and ethnic cleansing, collaborating with the Nazis, and controlling the world so that it can happen. This is where the crazy is.

Enough is enough. Yank every single dollar, and every bullet given to them and let them stand on their two feet. But don't be surprised if they get wiped out because all they have done is make enemies of the locals.

Please do. the last time Israel was left to stand on their own four Arab armies had to run back to mommy with their tails tucked between their legs. Same will happen again. (Note 1956, 1967 (hello Cairo), 1973). The last 2 conflicts (Gaza & Lebanon) the US held Israel on a very tight leash - threatening to cut off aid and trade if Israel did not accept cease fire terms.

I say bring it on, no holds barred, and with in 2 months we will be discussing Israel trading most of Syria & Jordan & the Sinai for peace with the current boarders.

And spare me the "They are the only democracy in the Middle East" crap too. They practice just as brutal tactics as their enemies as are practiced on them. Just because they elect the butchers, doesn't change the morality of the acts.

Israelis have elected many doves, as well as many Arab Israelis (who all call for the destruction of the country). Lebanon can be called a democracy, at least they hold a semi-regular election. Abbas' 4 year term was up 6 years ago. You can watch Assad's reaction to democracy requests almost nightly.

I guess if a country doesn't elect a government you like then it is a sad dictatorship. Wonder what you think of Canadian democracy?

Unlike others, I won't say "go away". I like to know where the crazies are.
Bringing the debate to light only helps.

[CaptainCrunch]

Well that's the equivalent of Mike Tyson beating up a 2 year old.