Comments on yet another custom PC...

[kn]

It's been about 5 years since I looked at computer technology for myself and I've been overwhelmed with what's now available. My home computer is a 24" iMac Intel Core 2 Duo Extreme @ 2.8 GHz. It's a good machine but it's 32-bit and I've only run Windows on it.

I use the home computer for (in decreasing order of priority):

• internet
• Windows development
• games (Football Manager 2011, Civilization V - no MMORG or FPS although I may try a FPS with my new system)
• music
• movies

I try and get more than I really need now in hopes of future-proofing. After a couple weeks of reading reviews and Tomshardware (among other places), the following is what I was able to build at Memory Express.

Thoughts would be appreciated if someone sees a major flaw in the system or incompatible parts.

• Case: Silverstone Fortress FT02 Unibody Chassis, Black ($239.99)
• Processor: Intel Core i7-2600K Processor, 3.40GHz w/ 8MB Cache ($304.99)
• Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z68X-UD3H-B3 w/ Dual DDR3 2133, 7.1 Audio, Gigabyte Lan, 1394, CrossFireX / SLI ($164.99)
• Memory: Corsair Vengeance 16GB DDR3 1600MHz CL9 Dual Channel Kit (4 x 4GB) ($129.99)
• Graphics Card: Asus ENGTX570 DirectCU II GTX 570 1GB GDDR5 w/ Dual DVI, HDMI, DisplayPort ($369.99)
• Power Supply: Corsair Professional Series Gold AX 850W Power Supply ($199.99)
• SSD: OCZ RevoDrive X2 PCI-E Solid State Drive, 240GB ($549.99)
• Optical Drive: Samsung 12x Internal Blu-Ray Combo, SATA, Black ($89.99)
• Monitor: Samsung SyncMaster T27A950 27in Widescreen 3D LED LCD w/ HDTV Tuner, Speakers, 3D Glasses ($749.99)
• Keyboard & Mouse: Logitech Desktop MK120, Retail ($19.99)
• OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium x64 (64-bit) SP1 DVD - OEM ($119.99)
• Labour: Assemble Hardware + Load my O/S ($70.00)
• Warranty: ($195.99)

Total: $3382.13


Questions:

1) I never bought a power supply before. I know the one I chose is a good one but do I even need one with my intended uses? Should I downgrade?

2) The RevoDrive is a special order but the demo I watched online just made it look incredibly cool. Boot time was practically nothing and it started almost 10 apps instantaneously. I know I can get cheaper alternatives though and it's likely I would still be pleased with the performance.

3) The Graphics Card is the 3rd best from Nvidia. It should be good enough for what I play but perhaps I should look at bumping it up for future-proofing? Do I really need to consider dual-cards? (I can't believe people use three cards for some games.)

4) The monitor is also out of stock but it looks really cool. I won't be using any of the 3D features so I guess I'm paying for something I don't need. Unfortunately, I didn't find another aesthetically pleasing monitor. I'm used to boring widescreen at work so I'd like something a bit nicer at home. This is where Apple spoils you. Any suggestions for monitors would be appreciated.

The sub-total without the warranty is $3009.89 which feels better. I obviously wouldn't mind knocking it down further to around $2750-$2850 without sacrificing too much performance.

Thanks to anyone who bothered to read all this.

[Rathji]

Get a second hard drive for data and you could reduce your SSD to 120GB and knock off a good chunk of change.

If you dont plan on using the 3D part of the monitor, I think that is way to much to be paying for a non-IPS monitor. I am not a monitor expert though, so I am just recalling sales from Dell for a similar price for a 27" IPS. I am sure someone else could chime in here.

[photon]

Originally Posted by kn

Questions:

1) I never bought a power supply before. I know the one I chose is a good one but do I even need one with my intended uses? Should I downgrade?

A good power supply will last you through multiple computers, and good power is essential for a stable computer. I personally think it's good to spend a bit extra. Plus a higher efficiency one will use less power and generate less heat.

That's a good one you've got there (I've got the same one), the system you've put together doesn't need 850W but again a bit extra for future proofing isn't always a bad thing if you've got the $$ and can see potential multi-video card setups in the future for yourself.

That AX850 is actually built by Seasonic which is a great PS company.

Originally Posted by kn

2) The RevoDrive is a special order but the demo I watched online just made it look incredibly cool. Boot time was practically nothing and it started almost 10 apps instantaneously. I know I can get cheaper alternatives though and it's likely I would still be pleased with the performance.

Yeah and actually $549 for 240GB isn't totally out of line, the 240GB Vertex 3 Max IOPS is $499, so it's only $50 for the PCIe interface.

That said as Rathji says you could opt for a 120GB drive and buy a 1-2TB drive for storage of movies, music, stuff that doesn't need the speed of an SSD.

(I would actually advise that anyway, Hitachi drives are great http://www.memoryexpress.com/Product...33859(ME).aspx)

Originally Posted by kn

3) The Graphics Card is the 3rd best from Nvidia. It should be good enough for what I play but perhaps I should look at bumping it up for future-proofing? Do I really need to consider dual-cards? (I can't believe people use three cards for some games.)

If that monitor is 1920x1080 (I think it is) then the 570 should be ok, I game on my 1920x1200 monitor with a GTX 460 and most games are fine.

Though check reviews for your specific card and resolution to make sure.

I agree with Rathji here too, that looks like a lot of $$ for a TN (lower end technology) panel, though it is 120Hz so maybe that's the price for those kinds of things, I'm not up to date on 3D monitors.

But yeah you can get a 27" IPS (better technology) monitor from Dell for that price during a sale usually.

Originally Posted by kn

4) The monitor is also out of stock but it looks really cool. I won't be using any of the 3D features so I guess I'm paying for something I don't need. Unfortunately, I didn't find another aesthetically pleasing monitor. I'm used to boring widescreen at work so I'd like something a bit nicer at home. This is where Apple spoils you. Any suggestions for monitors would be appreciated.

That's a lot extra to pay for aesthetics, and you're getting a lower end type monitor, personally I'd rather pay for quality of display (since I have to look at it all day). But ultimately you are the one that has to live with it so get what you like. My suggestion here would be to make sure and get it from somewhere you can return it for a full refund.

http://hardforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=78

That's a great place to research monitors.

Alternately if aesthetics is important you could actually go with an Apple monitor:

http://store.apple.com/ca/product/MC...co=MTkwMzc1NDA

$999 for an IPS 27" with that uber resolution is actually not bad IMO.

Though if you do that, make sure and get a video card with a display-port port (some only have DVI and HDMI) and you'll have to get an adapter, but I know people run that monitor on PCs.

EDIT: Though I don't know if a GTX 570 will be able to work at that resolution ok, you'll probably have to research that.

Originally Posted by kn

The sub-total without the warranty is $3009.89 which feels better. I obviously wouldn't mind knocking it down further to around $2750-$2850 without sacrificing too much performance.

Thanks to anyone who bothered to read all this.

So places you could shave some; get the ASUS bundle for that processor which is $449, go with a 120GB SSD paired with a large regular drive, go with a AX750 you could save a bit (and I often see the AX750/AX850 on sale, the AX750 is on sale for $149 at NCIX so you could pricematch http://ncix.com/products/index.php?s...r&promoid=1055)..

[Lithium]

I was wondering why a custom built PC is nearing the price of a new MAC, then I seen the $800 monitor.

Like Rathji said, a smaller SSD drive would do wonders for your total price.

The GTX 570 is the second best from Nvidia from what I can see, I don't see a need to go higher. I have a GTX 460 and I can still run any game that is released today in the highest graphic settings.

http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html

[psyang]

If you want to stick with a large SSD and save a bit of money, you can get an Intel 300 gig SSD at memory express for $520. They currently are sold at ME for $560, but you can pricematch it with newegg which has the same drive at $530. ME will give you an additional 25% off the difference for the price match, leaving the total at $519.99.

I actually just did this for a client yesterday, so I know it works.

[photon]

There's a pretty significant difference in performance between an Intel 320 and the Revo drive he's talking about. Plus the 320 only supports SATA II

Better warranty and reliability (possibly) from the Intel though.

The 320 would make sense if it was priced a lot lower.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4244/intel-ssd-320-review

The crucial m4 256GB for $399 would be a better choice if trying to save some $$ on the SSD while staying above 200GB.

[calumniate]

$20 on a keyboard and mouse on a 3k system just seems wrong! I'd get a mouse with more comfort & more buttons, and a keyboard with the same features. I can control my volume from my keyboard etc and change tracks. Sometimes comes in handy.

[kn]

Wow! I didn't expect such a response. Thanks everyone for the great information. I'm going to take a step back and re-evaluate.

[kn]

After more research, I've come up with a better configuration. I've confirmed that the SSD and Memory work with the motherboard. The SSD is more than before but Intel has better reliability than OCZ from everything I've read. I don't need a second drive as I already have plenty of external storage.

The motherboard also has an HDMI connection which I plan to use with the monitor with a native resolution of 1920x1200. As much as I didn't want to go with a Dell, the UltraSharp has good reviews. I don't want to go to a 27" with a native resolution of 2560x1440. That's too big for me and I didn't want to have to use a High-DPI setting or magnification to read text.

I downgraded the case and scrapped the Blu-Ray drive to save a few bucks. Although I have a large Blu-Ray collection, that's what the home theatre system is for. I really am not too fussy about the keyboard and mouse, so I'm just going to pick up something cheap.

All prices are from NCIX this time, which I found to be generally cheaper (although I don't know how much shipping would be). Memory Express does not have the new Intel 510 SSD as an option in any configuration.

Case: ($169)
Corsair Graphite Series 600TM Mid-Tower Case ATX 4X5.25 6X3.5INT 4 Channel Fan Ctrl No PS MESH Panel

Power Supply: ($139)
Corsair Enthusiast Series TX850M 850W ATX Modular Power Supply Active PFC 120MM Fan 5 Year Warranty

Processor: ($343)
Intel Core i7 Quad Core Unlocked Hyperthreading Processor LGA1155 3.4GHz Sandy Bridge 8MB

Motherboard: ($146)
Gigabyte Z68XP-UD3 ATX LGA1155 Z68 DDR3 2PCI-E16 3PCI-E1 2PCI HDMI SLI SATA3 USB3.0 Motherboard

Memory: ($128)
G.SKILL F3-128000CL7D-8GBRH Ripjaws PC3-12800 8GB 2X4GB DDR3-1600 CL7-8-7-24 1.6V

Graphics Card: ($363)
GeForce GTX 570 732MHZ 1280MB 3.8GHZ GDDR5 PCI-E Dual DVI-I Mini HDMI

Storage: ($616)
Intel 510 Series 250GB Solid State Drive SSD 2.5IN SATA 6GB/S Elm Crest

Optical Drive: ($26)
Samsung SH-B123L 12X BD-ROM & DVD Burner Combo Internal SATA W/ Power DVD Software Retail Box

Monitor: ($597)
Dell - UltraSharp U2410 24-inch Widescreen Flat Panel Monitor

OS: ($111)
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium Edition 64BIT SP1 DVD OEM

Labour & Warranty: ($47)

Total without Tax/Shipping/Keyboard/Mouse: $2685

[photon]

U2410 is a good monitor, though you can find it for $450 or less quite often during deals, so that one you can keep an eye on to save some $$.

I'd still go with the AX750 Corsair, it's on for $149 at NCIX.

[Aegypticus]

Originally Posted by kn

The motherboard also has an HDMI connection which I plan to use with the monitor with a native resolution of 1920x1200.

I'm fairly certain doing this will bypass your fancy new graphics card and use the onboard video instead, but that card has both DVI and mini HDMI out, which is essentially the same thing, just without carrying the audio signal.

Fortunately, you can get cables like this for cheap.

Edit: Just to clarify, if you go the DVI to HDMI route you will not get an audio signal. I'm unsure if the video card can pass the signal somehow if you go mini HDMI to HDMI. In any case, it's usually not the case that passing an audio signal to a computer monitor is desired.

[Meelapo]

Originally Posted by kn

After more research, I've come up with a better configuration. I've confirmed that the SSD and Memory work with the motherboard. The SSD is more than before but Intel has better reliability than OCZ from everything I've read. I don't need a second drive as I already have plenty of external storage.

The motherboard also has an HDMI connection which I plan to use with the monitor with a native resolution of 1920x1200. As much as I didn't want to go with a Dell, the UltraSharp has good reviews. I don't want to go to a 27" with a native resolution of 2560x1440. That's too big for me and I didn't want to have to use a High-DPI setting or magnification to read text.

I downgraded the case and scrapped the Blu-Ray drive to save a few bucks. Although I have a large Blu-Ray collection, that's what the home theatre system is for. I really am not too fussy about the keyboard and mouse, so I'm just going to pick up something cheap.

All prices are from NCIX this time, which I found to be generally cheaper (although I don't know how much shipping would be). Memory Express does not have the new Intel 510 SSD as an option in any configuration.


Power Supply: ($139)
Corsair Enthusiast Series TX850M 850W ATX Modular Power Supply Active PFC 120MM Fan 5 Year Warranty

I have a Corsair TX power supply and I found it very loud. I went out an bought the AX version and it's super quiet. For $30 more you can get the AX version of the 850 and have a "gold" rated power supply. It's $199.99 at NCIX and Memory Express but using shoptbot I found it for $169.99

http://www.directcanada.com/products...acture=CORSAIR

Good candidate for a price match with that 25% match that Memory Express does.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Meelapo

I have a Corsair TX power supply and I found it very loud. I went out an bought the AX version and it's super quiet. For $30 more you can get the AX version of the 850 and have a "gold" rated power supply. It's $199.99 at NCIX and Memory Express but using shoptbot I found it for $169.99

http://www.directcanada.com/products...acture=CORSAIR

Good candidate for a price match with that 25% match that Memory Express does.

Gold, Silver, and Bronze 80 plus ratings are meaningless, not enforced, and pretty much just marketing to get you to shell out more money

I have the 850TX Modular and it's great and silent as well.

Why 80 PLUS is Irrelevant to You When Buying a PSU

[photon]

The 80 PLUS ratings are not marketing, they are actual standards that have to be extensively tested and verified.

An 80 PLUS power supply has to be 80% efficient at 20%, 50%, and 100% load.

An 80 PLUS Gold power supply has to be 87% at 20%, 90% at 50%, and 87% at 100%.

At 50% load (425W) that's a 10% difference in efficiency, or 42.5W.

When I went to a 80 PLUS Gold power supply from a non 80 PLUS the temperature in my office was noticeably lower; it didn't heat up from my computer.

They have a good testing protocol:

http://efficientpowersupplies.epri.c...tocol_R6.5.pdf

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by photon

The 80 PLUS ratings are not marketing, they are actual standards that have to be extensively tested and verified.

According to what I've read from more than one source, that is not the case. See the link in my post. Good manufacturers however, will generally do their own testing regardless of what ECOS does. Just wanted to point out that the 80 Plus sticker is not a guarantee of anything and many smaller/off brand makes will simply abuse the process (submit cherry picked units or even a completely different PSU). If you want high efficiency, stick to a well regarded manufacturer. I myself own two Silverstone 1000W Strider Gold units as well and love them. They pretty much pull about 900 watts at the wall (measured with a kill-a-watt meter) 24/7 and remain quiet and cool. Also saved a system when a surge protector power bar melted to an outdoor heavy duty extension cord do to electricity arcing somehow.

[photon]

Any certification can and will be gamed by someone who thinks that doing so will give them a better upside than getting caught would harm them, but I don't think that invalidates the certification.

And any certification will be used in marketing to try and differentiate you from the competition, just like any feature will be.

But those things don't make it irrelevant, a Gold power supply still meets specific levels of efficiency, the tests are there to be read. If a company cheats that doesn't invalidate the test, just the conclusions you might draw from the test.

That's why I agree to stick with reputable companies, the AX series from Corsair is built with Seasonic, a company with a great reputation. The most recent TX series I think is built with Seasonic too.

[Meelapo]

Sorry. I shouldn't have said it was loud. My perception of loud is a lot different than most people I think. I'm sure the TX is quiet but for me going from a TX to an AX (where the fan doesn't turn on while browsing, watching movies) was night and day. I just figured for $30 more the OP could get a more efficient power supply and one that doesn't run the fan all the time (so there isn't fan noises while watching movies).

[kn]

The motherboard supports:

1. Realtek ALC889 codec
2. High Definition Audio
3. 2/4/5.1/7.1-channel
4. Support for Dolby® Home Theater
5. Support for S/PDIF Out

So I guess I'll be adding two speakers. I really don't want more than that cluttering my desktop.

And Aegypticus, thanks for pointing out that HDMI bypasses the graphics card. I just assumed HDMI would pass both video and audio like in my home-theatre setup.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by kn

The motherboard supports:

1. Realtek ALC889 codec
2. High Definition Audio
3. 2/4/5.1/7.1-channel
4. Support for Dolby® Home Theater
5. Support for S/PDIF Out

So I guess I'll be adding two speakers. I really don't want more than that cluttering my desktop.

And Aegypticus, thanks for pointing out that HDMI bypasses the graphics card. I just assumed HDMI would pass both video and audio like in my home-theatre setup.

What he meant is that if you plug into the motherboard, it wont be using your graphics card, ie to actually use the card you need to plug devices into it.

In fact, you even wouldn't get a signal from the onboard port most likely, unless that mother board required you to disable the onboard video manually, but I have not run across a board like that in a long time.

[kn]

After waffling for a month now, I decided to go with a tricked out gaming laptop, a Sager 8170. I like the look of it because it's understated so it can pass as a professional device, even though this will be replacing my desktop and not travelling.

http://www.reflexnotebook.ca/index.p...er-np8170.html

17.3" Full HD LED-Backlit Display featuring 90% NTSC Color Gamut in Super Glossy Surface (1920 x 1080)
2nd Generation Intel® Core™ i7-2860QM Processor ( 8MB L3 Cache, 2.50GHz)
Nvidia GeForce GTX 580M GPU with 2.0GB GDDR5 Video Memory
16GB Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1600MHz - 4 X 4GB
250GB Intel 510 Series SATA3 Solid State Disk Drive
6X Blu-ray Reader/8X DVD±R/2.4X +DL Super-Multi Drive & Software

After tax, shipping, warranty, it all came to $3580.88 which is a bit more than I initially intended on spending but not completely unreasonable and should easily last me several years.

I now will be able to play something other than Civ5 on low settings!