[Kent Wilson Article] “self-satisfied mediocrity”

[ComixZone]

Kent Wilson’s latest article is worth a read.

I am half convinced that being downstream of Edmonton’s Gretzky-led dynasty fueled Calgary to build their own best-ever rosters in the 80’s. Edmonton being miserable through most of the cap era was grimly amusing for Flames fans and management, but it also allowed the local crew to wallow in a kind of self-satisfied mediocrity far too often.

“At least we’re better than the Oilers.” No. We don’t have that anymore.

[Roof-Daddy]

It took McDavid 9 years to drag that ####ty pathetic despicable organization to the finals, that's how bad they are. A couple lottery balls bounced their way in 2015. It's the only reason why they're where they are right now.

[curves2000]

Motivation and drive. This is what drives athletes, business people and successful people in general. This piece is bang on. For way too long Flames management and ownership were wasting time, playing games and giving us all this impression they are 100% committed to winning across the board in every aspect of the organization. We know that is false.

Way too much attention is brought to 2004 cup run which was a great story but was on the back of an unlikely hero in Kipper. It's either been a combo of not surrounding top talent with proper coaching staff or supporting players or refusing to believe that you need young, explosive talent. Having an actual PLAN for doing something is important. Our plan in 23-24 was to resign a bunch of older players to higher AAV contracts and double down on the fraud. Those players had other ideas and forced managements hand to where we are today.

I am one of the few hardcore Flames fans who isn't opposed to Edmonton winning, in the faint hope it forces ownership and management to confront the truth that we are a bottom feeder organization and have been almost my entire life (39)

Amateur should be over and we need to get into a position where we are a long term, long playoff run contender. Tampa, Chicago, Anaheim, Pittsburgh, Nashville, Vegas and more. Even teams like Winnipeg have had a LOT of regular season and playoff success in the last decade.

If Edmonton wins a cup, that will be 6 to our 1. Ours came when the owner up north decided to sell arguably the most dominate athlete in history. If that didn't happen, does Calgary even win a cup?

I am almost approaching middle age and told I need to trust the process and to be patient. Patience is running out and so is the pocket book for this nonsense every year

[Finger Cookin]

“At least we’re better than the Oilers.” No. We don’t have that anymore.

If there's another ill-advised E=NG thread next season, there's our thread title

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by curves2000

Motivation and drive. This is what drives athletes, business people and successful people in general. This piece is bang on. For way too long Flames management and ownership were wasting time, playing games and giving us all this impression they are 100% committed to winning across the board in every aspect of the organization. We know that is false.

Way too much attention is brought to 2004 cup run which was a great story but was on the back of an unlikely hero in Kipper. It's either been a combo of not surrounding top talent with proper coaching staff or supporting players or refusing to believe that you need young, explosive talent. Having an actual PLAN for doing something is important. Our plan in 23-24 was to resign a bunch of older players to higher AAV contracts and double down on the fraud. Those players had other ideas and forced managements hand to where we are today.

I am one of the few hardcore Flames fans who isn't opposed to Edmonton winning, in the faint hope it forces ownership and management to confront the truth that we are a bottom feeder organization and have been almost my entire life (39)

Amateur should be over and we need to get into a position where we are a long term, long playoff run contender. Tampa, Chicago, Anaheim, Pittsburgh, Nashville, Vegas and more. Even teams like Winnipeg have had a LOT of regular season and playoff success in the last decade.

If Edmonton wins a cup, that will be 6 to our 1. Ours came when the owner up north decided to sell arguably the most dominate athlete in history. If that didn't happen, does Calgary even win a cup?

I am almost approaching middle age and told I need to trust the process and to be patient. Patience is running out and so is the pocket book for this nonsense every year

We don't need Edmonton to win, Florida and Colorado were rebuilding at the same time as Edmonton. Florida is another case of a team being at the bottom for around 5 years and now are having sustained success because of it. Edmonton would get the owners attention more so than Florida, but just being in the finals has to get their attention.

[Matty81]

I think it's a well written article and I have a hard time disagreeing with him.

The Oilers completely fluked into their current team after years of ineptitude... the McDavid lottery was just pure horseshoes and I personally hate the draft system and the way it rewards failure. They flubbed a lot of high picks prior to that McDavid pick and basically were kept on life support through what's essentially coporate welfare payments via the draft.

People also always love pointing out how some random great player was drafted late, some early draft picks sucked and repeating that a losing culture stunts player development.

But the reality is, the higher picks more often than not provide better, more valuable players - or create more valuable trade chips that can be used to acquire core pieces. And that young core franchise players to build around typically can't be acquired any other way. Many of the best teams in recent league history were built around franchise talents drafted high.

Some teams don't use their picks well but that doesn't change the fact that a true rebuild is the fastest way to add foundational assets to your team.

I always wonder with the Flames if the ownership are just very afraid deep down that attendance will crater if they are bad for a few years and think their bottom line is just better off with at least being remotely in the playoff race every year rather than going through those lean years where they have to endure a lot of empty seats.

[DoubleK]

I read that this morning and felt it describes my feelings quite well.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Oilers will be back where they belong in 2 years.

This thing is going to take patience, no need to look at a team that got an embarrassment of riches for sucking that no team will ever get again and pain yourself over it.

Just do the rebuild right and ignore the distractions or temptation to try to fast track it.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by Matty81

I always wonder with the Flames if the ownership are just very afraid deep down that attendance will crater if they are bad for a few years and think their bottom line is just better off with at least being remotely in the playoff race every year rather than going through those lean years where they have to endure a lot of empty seats.

Nothing ownership has done in steering this a franchise since The Young Guns days suggests this isn't their primary fear.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by Matty81

The Oilers completely fluked into their current team after years of ineptitude... the McDavid lottery was just pure horseshoes and I personally hate the draft system and the way it rewards failure.

And on top of that, still couldn't do anything with it until the NHL started giving a quiet-but-obvious helping hand, likely because they were sick of Edmonton ruining top picks and prospects.

[Igottago]

Fantastic article. "The NHL is structured to reward the boom and bust cycle of team building". This is it in a nutshell. You can hate it all you want but that's what winning in the NHL is. Until the Flames fully accept this, they will continue to tread water in mediocrity.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

I don’t have a strong opinion on Kent like some people on CP do. It’s hard not to disagree with a ton in that article because he doesn’t really say much. And he’s not even really describing the flames in particular, he could be talking about anyone of about 20 teams in the NHL.

Sure I would like the flames to draft generational talent end or top and superstars who can lead us to a cup. Easier said than done.

The one thing I do disagree with is that he thinks that anyone is satisfied with mediocrity. The fans aren’t, management isn’t, ownership isn’t, the media isn’t etc. everybody wants to win a Stanley Cup but it’s so much easier said than done. It requires remarkable luck, timing and skill (from players and management).

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

everybody wants to win a Stanley Cup but it’s so much easier said than done. It requires remarkable luck, timing and skill (from players and management).

No, no. All you need is sufficient character and to do the obvious things. You need to be the only team with the brains to tank, then win the lottery (which the hockey gods will give you for being righteous and wanting it the most), and of course the player you draft at #1 will automatically be a generational talent.

Anybody who doesn't win the Stanley Cup is obviously a schlemiel who wants to lose. It is known.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I don’t have a strong opinion on Kent like some people on CP do. It’s hard not to disagree with a ton in that article because he doesn’t really say much. And he’s not even really describing the flames in particular, he could be talking about anyone of about 20 teams in the NHL.

Sure I would like the flames to draft generational talent end or top and superstars who can lead us to a cup. Easier said than done.

The one thing I do disagree with is that he thinks that anyone is satisfied with mediocrity. The fans aren’t, management isn’t, ownership isn’t, the media isn’t etc. everybody wants to win a Stanley Cup but it’s so much easier said than done. It requires remarkable luck, timing and skill (from players and management).

The point is they need to aim directionally at that. If you don't think other organizations have done that, you're living in a delusion. You can't tell me with a straight face that Chicago didn't do everything possible to ice a team that got them a great shot at Bedard. Same with San Jose this season. This has been going on for years in the NHL. Its about fully embracing the down cycles and making the most of it.

[PepsiFree]

Dumb take, Kent. We’ll always have “better than the Oilers.”

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Igottago

The point is they need to aim directionally at that. If you don't think other organizations have done that, you're living in a delusion. You can't tell me with a straight face that Chicago didn't do everything possible to ice a team that got them a great shot at Bedard. Same with San Jose this season. This has been going on for years in the NHL. Its about fully embracing the down cycles and making the most of it.

They traded Lindholm, Tanev, Hanifin, Zadorov, Toffoli… a handful of their very best players from the season before. They’re going to trade Markstrom and, possibly, multiple other players. They focused on acquiring young players and draft picks. They were one of the worst teams post-deadline.

What direction would people like them to go that the actual actions (not rumours, not hearsay, not “well we would have liked to do this other thing but we didn’t”) don’t indicate?

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

They traded Lindholm, Tanev, Hanifin, Zadorov, Toffoli… a handful of their very best players from the season before. They’re going to trade Markstrom and, possibly, multiple other players. They focused on acquiring young players and draft picks. They were one of the worst teams post-deadline.

What direction would people like them to go that the actual actions (not rumours, not hearsay, not “well we would have liked to do this other thing but we didn’t”) don’t indicate?

People want the team to have a crack at the elite draft picks and the next generation of superstar players. Conroy himself said in an interview last season they know they won't land the elite top draft picks because they won't tear it down all the way. Not sure how you can blame the fans for being nervous about their direction given constant talk about retools, not rebuilds.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

No, no. All you need is sufficient character and to do the obvious things. You need to be the only team with the brains to tank, then win the lottery (which the hockey gods will give you for being righteous and wanting it the most), and of course the player you draft at #1 will automatically be a generational talent.

Anybody who doesn't win the Stanley Cup is obviously a schlemiel who wants to lose. It is known.

While that's obvious sarcasm pointed directly at people who are unhappy with constantly missing the playoffs while drafting outside the top 5... it at least sounds like a better plan than what Calgary's done post '89.

(drafting Monahan Bennet and Tkachuk at 6th, 4th and 6th but then throwing them all away does not invalidate the positives of actually drafting those guys. they are each very good players and at least two of them are huge pieces of a very good playoff team. you can't look at those high picks like their value means nothing just because we didn't use the players we got with them properly)

(suggesting that picking in the top five is not better than picking outside the top five, and therefore anyone who wants that is a clown is not an enviable stance to take)

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Igottago

People want the team to have a crack at the elite draft picks and the next generation of superstar players. Conroy himself said in an interview last season they know they won't land the elite top draft picks because they won't tear it down all the way. Not sure how you can blame the fans for being nervous about their direction given constant talk about retools, not rebuilds.

Because his actual actions point in the exact direction people want him to go, and instead of focusing on that, people write long winded missives about not being told what they want to hear and the sorry state of the franchise.

What other team trades their top two forwards, top defensive pairing, and prepares to trade their #1 goaltender with no bonafide solution behind them… and still isn’t “tearing it down”?

What does tearing it down look like vs what the Flames have done? I’m genuinely asking. Is it just that they’re also collecting young players on the cheap that are better than their AHL guys?

[EVERLAST]

This teams owners honestly have become satisfied with breaking even it seems .

The Las Vegas model is ruthless and they have a cup . Say what you will about it they still have a Cup. They've not allowed complacency to set in , mediocrity won't fly either.

It's an absolute country club we have here . It just is. The G AF meter hasn't been pegged in a while.

Craig Conroy , Iginla , Gelinas , Coleman do know something about winning but theyre too nice about the approach required to win in my eyes .

It's early yes . But to me Sutter wanted to get more by ANY means and yet was run the f out and was called every disrespectful name in the book in the process.

He got career years out of guys , demanded allot and for thr most part guys did just take a shirt , collect a paycheck and moved on ....or come here for $$$ and no actual desire to move any needles on any GAF meter.....and make themselves feel better by saying I'm showing thr next group of losers how to win ...wait ...er ....what are we really doing here. ???