Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Go Back   Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community > Main Forums > Fire on Ice: The Calgary Flames Forum
Register Forum Rules FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-24-2024, 02:52 PM   #1
Arsenal14
Powerplay Quarterback
 
Arsenal14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Exp:
Default Evaluating Past Draft Rankings

As mentioned in the draft thread I've been tracking draft rankings in a spreadsheet since 2013 and was trying to figure out a way to evaluate how the various experts have performed. This is what I've come up with.

1. Evaluating from 2013-2019 as I started recording rankings in 2013 and anything past 2019 seems premature (do we really know what Quinton Byfield or Alexis Lafreniere is yet?)
2. Using the first round players (so 30 or 31 players depending on the year) from each list as some rankings I don't have further than that and we mostly care about the top of the draft
3. Evaluating based on the actual results of the players in the NHL - not where they were drafted as these lists aren't meant to be mock drafts but rather are how the expert thinks the player will perform. To achieve this I decided to use the career Point Share calculation from HockeyReference.com as it allows comparison across positions. This also means that players with similar results will have similar values.
4. Weight the results based on where the player was ranked - getting a good player in your ranking at #25 is fine, but if the player you put #2 was a bust that should count against you pretty heavily. I decided the simplest way to weight the rankings was by multiplying the point shares by the inverse of the slot - so for a year where the first round had 30 picks for the #1 ranked player's point shares are multiplied by 30, the #2 player by 29, etc. I'm not convinced that the top players in the ranking shouldn't be weighted even more heavily but this is at least a start.
5. For a baseline I then calculated the same value based on the actual draft positions for the year
6. To allow comparison across years I then took each list's score as a percentage of the baseline. So if the score for the actual draft was 9279 (the 2017 score) and Bob McKenzie's list scored 9204 he would end up with 9204/9279*100 = 99.2 as his score for that year. Above 100 means the list outperformed the actual draft, below 100 is worse.

My assumption going is was that Bob McKenzie would be right around the actual GM results as his list is an average of NHL scouts. I figured Craig Button and Corey Pronman would probably vary quite a bit from year to year as they tend to go against the consensus more than most. So, how did the various evaluators do?

Code:
                        Overall	2019	2018	2017	2016	2015	2014	2013
Future Considerations	100.0	95.1	103.4	95.1	104.5	99.6	103.6	98.7
Bob McKenzie		99.7	100.6	102.3	99.2	100.3	99.9	101.1	94.3
Craig Button		99.3	99.2	101.5	95.4	105.4	100.4	104.8	88.7
HockeyProspect.com	99.2	99.0	102.5	97.0	99.9		103.9	93.0
McKeen's		99.0	94.6	105.7	94.9	99.2	102.1	101.2	94.9
Eldon MacDonald		98.8				95.8	100.8	99.8	
Christopher Ralph	98.7				102.0	99.3	94.7
Ryan Kennedy		97.4	98.6		93.2	100.7	98.5	101.0	92.7
Last Word on Sports	97.3	94.1	99.3	90.8	103.1	99.1	97.6	
Corey Pronman		96.2	100.1	86.9	85.8	99.9	95.4	104.1	101.1
ISS			95.8	96.9	98.2	89.2	98.4	99.4	93.3	95.0
Ryan Pike		95.7	94.3		86.6	106.2
Scott Wheeler		95.3	92.1	98.6
As expected, McKenzie is generally right around 100. Future Considerations had a few very good years. Button had a terrible 2013 and excellent 2014 and 2016 rankings. Pronman was awful in 2017 and 2018. ISS is not good. Wheeler didn't do well, but it was only a 2 draft sample for him. Overall the NHL GMs get better results than the expert rankings.

So what does it all mean? Probably not much but I thought some of you may find it interesting.
Arsenal14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2024, 02:57 PM   #2
Tbull8
First Line Centre
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Exp:
Default

I’d be curious to see how accurate these rankings are relative to how the draft plays out. My gut says McKenzie has the smallest variance still
Tbull8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2024, 03:02 PM   #3
HitterD
Powerplay Quarterback
 
HitterD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: In my office...is it 5:00 yet???
Exp:
Default

Thats it! i'm taking Ryan Pike's book back after that performance.

Thank you so much for putting this together. Button comes out looking a lot better than many (including me) would have thought.
HitterD is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to HitterD For This Useful Post:
Old 05-24-2024, 03:07 PM   #4
Arsenal14
Powerplay Quarterback
 
Arsenal14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HitterD View Post
Thats it! i'm taking Ryan Pike's book back after that performance.

Thank you so much for putting this together. Button comes out looking a lot better than many (including me) would have thought.
In fairness, Pike only had three drafts and had some pretty wild variance. His 2016 list fared the best of any expert in any year and then he missed hard in 2017. 2016 he hit on McAvoy, DeBrincat, Chychrun and Samuel Girard. 2017 was hurt by Nolan Patrick busting and being lower on Heiskanen and Pettersson than most plus not having Jason Robertson in the first round.
Arsenal14 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Arsenal14 For This Useful Post:
Old 05-24-2024, 03:28 PM   #5
Matty81
#1 Goaltender
 
Matty81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Exp:
Default

Good reminder, when does the FC draft guide come out, always enjoy that one and have appreciated the discounts on the board.
Matty81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2024, 03:38 PM   #6
HitterD
Powerplay Quarterback
 
HitterD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: In my office...is it 5:00 yet???
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsenal14 View Post
In fairness, Pike only had three drafts and had some pretty wild variance. His 2016 list fared the best of any expert in any year and then he missed hard in 2017. 2016 he hit on McAvoy, DeBrincat, Chychrun and Samuel Girard. 2017 was hurt by Nolan Patrick busting and being lower on Heiskanen and Pettersson than most plus not having Jason Robertson in the first round.
Oh for sure, nothing meant by it other than a quick rib. I'll also take the opportunity to recommend his book to any flames fans i know, its such a great read
HitterD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2024, 04:50 PM   #7
Jiri Hrdina
Franchise Player
 
Jiri Hrdina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Exp:
Default

Awesome work
Jiri Hrdina is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Jiri Hrdina For This Useful Post:
Old 05-24-2024, 05:08 PM   #8
butterfly
#1 Goaltender
 
Join Date: Apr 2022
Location: California
Exp:
Default

Thanks, I love threads like this!

Couple questions:

- Did you simply rank the career point share totals or is the variation between them preserved? For example, if 1st is 40 and 2nd is 10, that is a very large difference that should be preserved in any evaluation of scouts in my opinion, as the next year 1st could be 24.4 and 2nd could be 24.2 - a trivial difference.

- Rather than 1st = 30, 2nd = 29, etc., can you try using the values listed here? https://soundofhockey.com/2022/06/06...l-draft-picks/ My feeling is that it will enhance the differences between the more critical earlier picks.
butterfly is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to butterfly For This Useful Post:
Old 05-24-2024, 05:12 PM   #9
Bankai
Scoring Winger
 
Bankai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Why is there oil everywhere?
Exp:
Default

Thanks for doing this. Must've taken you a long time. Love reading it!
Bankai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2024, 06:20 PM   #10
icarus
Franchise Player
 
icarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Singapore
Exp:
Default

Love analyses like this, thank you!

So if we are to regard Bob McKenzie and FC as the most reliable rankings, one thing I find interesting looking at their latest lists is that they both have Konsta Helenius ahead of Tij Iginla.

This is going to be a very interesting draft as a Flames fan!
__________________
Shot down in Flames!
icarus is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to icarus For This Useful Post:
Old 05-24-2024, 07:17 PM   #11
cral12
First Line Centre
 
cral12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Love this and thanks for doing this Arsenal14. Cool to see my old stuff up there, admittedly. My pal E-Mac (Eldon) gets bragging rights in this analysis, though cool to see I was trending upwards each subsequent year. At least I have bragging rights over my pal Pike lol, but he killed it in 2016.

I would note (and will be interesting to track), E-Mac is our chief scout at Upside Hockey and is the man behind the mega spreadsheet style rankings we keep highlighting in the 2024 NHL draft thread, and of course our main man, CP's own, Sandman our prolific prospect profiler (we're over 200 profiles now).

I have to go back through to confirm, but at least one or two of the last two drafts, E-Mac actually had 1-2 more prospects ranked correctly going in the first round more than Bobby Mac did, fwiw.
__________________
Author of Raised by Rocks, Moved by Mountains ; Chief Exploration Officer: UPSIDE Hockey & Trail Lynx
cral12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:56 AM.

Calgary Flames
2023-24




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2021