Quote:
Originally Posted by AltaGuy
I think there are several things at play here:
1. Liberals, both from within and without Islam, can disagree about how to spread liberal values in the Muslim world very easily, even though the end goal is the same (a more liberal Muslim world).
There is no roadmap for liberalizing a massive population of people living in disparate communities around the world and sharing a religion. Some people believe that alienating Muslims only hardens their illiberal views; some want to focus on socioeconomic grievances; some want to focus on the religion itself reforming; some want to argue dogma and "true" Islam; some want to share culture and create interdependence; some want to look at historic grievances. Some even want violence.
While obviously the goal is the same (again - liberalizing the Islamic world), there are very different views on how to achieve these outcomes. All of these methods have been tried to various degrees, and probably all have seen successes and failures to various degrees.
2. There are also some illiberal critiques of Islam that are completely invalid. It is not valid to declare Muslims lesser or beyond hope. It is also not valid to seek to create or enforce a schism between one type of people (non-Muslims) and Muslims. I believe it is wrong to characterize this entire religion as violent or incompatible with liberalism: I find that illiberal as well given that there are Muslim liberals. Much of the time, I find critiques of Islam rooted in bigotry rather than a goal of liberalization.
3. It is also illiberal to seek an end to discussions about problems within Islam (the dreaded "Regressive Left"). While, some of the time, I believe Regressive Leftists are actually just liberals with a different view on how one should approach the issue of increasing liberalism in the Muslim world, there are also those for whom dissenting views seem to be anathema. Competing ideas and the freedom to speak of them is definitely a hallmark of liberalism (if not the hallmark).
Unfortunately, it is easy for the Regressive Left to find allies in the Muslim world: many in the Muslim world have strong reasons to prefer that their illiberal lives are not changed.
*** All that said, it is perfectly valid to have very different liberal views about how to approach this massive problem in the world today. Frustrating part is there are many who don't actually have liberal views fueling the arguments on both sides.
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I don't think it's just about dealing with large groups of people abroad. There were plenty of groups within the UK preaching some very violent and hateful ideologies. It's one thing to promote Sharia law or state that Islam is the best religion. It's another to hold up a placard that directly promotes violence towards those who oppose you.
This stuff wasn't just going on abroad or in the "Muslim world". It is going on within the UK and many parts of Europe. I don't understand how you don't end up in jail for stating that someone who disagrees with you should be murdered. This is 100% the result of Political Correctness gone wrong.